trying to get a brew into a commercial 50L keg

[technobabble66]

Caustic is a more effective cleaner (it's what oven cleaner is made from), and substantially cheaper. At a home brew level it shouldn't be necessary because we have the luxury of being able to disassemble and scrub the equipment.

I can see that caustic seems to be used to make extra extra sure that every nook & cranny is completely clean. But i have to admit in my experience a 24-48hr soak in hot PBW gets everything squeaky clean; including inaccessible areas like cubes with dried yeast scum on them, etc.
Is PBW actually not as effective as i believe it is?

 

[Mardoo]

It's the difference between potentially losing $25 worth of product vs $25,000 worth of product. Caustic is insurance, AFAIK.

 

[MastersBrewery]

It's the difference between potentially losing $25 worth of product vs $25,000 worth of product. Caustic is insurance, AFAIK.

50L 4 $25 Bloody hell either your stealin' malt or your makin' light beers ! :huh:

 

[technobabble66]

Table sugar is very cheap.

 

[Weizguy]

<snipped>
However, the most crippling disadvantage is that the entire home brew community is centred around cornies so it's very difficult to find any components without paying an arm and a keg. Furthermore, force carbonation is a pain the arse because, since the gas hardware out there is designed around cornies, you can't easily "burp" a keg.

I have a CUB D-type coupler that has a built-in PRV that you can use to depressurize or burp the keg.
Not sure where you can buy one, because mine came with a bundle of keg goodies that I bought from W.A. via eBay.

 

[mb-squared]

just had a quick read through this thread. it appears that everyone is talking about cleaning the keg with the spear in place. and that is certainly going to be more difficult than cleaning a corny (though it certainly can be done!). but why not remove the spear? it is easy to do. I do it all the time and I'm all thumbs. after you've removed it, take it outside, turn it upside down, shove the garden hose up in there and spray it clean. turn it back over, fill it with ~5L of water and your favorite cleaner (I use caustic soda 'cause I'm really into living on the edge... and I like a clean keg) and pop it on your favorite gas burner. bring it to a boil and let it rip for ~15 minutes. get some heavy gloves on, give it a slosh or two, flip it over and down the drain it goes. give it a quick acid rinse and the inside of that thing will as clean as you'll ever need. while your keg is boiling away, dissemble the spear, clean it up real good and then put it back together and install. easy!

I ferment in my 50L and so I need it to be as close to sterile in there as possible and this is my routine. Haven't had a problem in a very long time.

 

[S.E]

Do not use iodophor of any of the phosphoric sanitisers as any residue left in the keg stem or keg will taint the beer. Hence the reason the big kids use Peracetic Acid (PAA). PAA also will neutralize caustic with no flavor taint.

What’s wrong with phosphoric sanitisers? Everyone knows we don’t need to fear the foam. Next you’ll be telling us we don’t need kittens in our airlocks!! Feckin eejit.

 

[///]

The tangents are going everywhere, so to be short and sweet;

* caustic is the best per pound cleaner in a brewery, the other cleaners sold are just marketing really. Caustic breaks down protein and fats (trub, beer ring, yeast etc), is cheap and easy to use as long as you be safe. Yes low pH phosphorics work, but there are lots of caveats.
* PRV's are not yet a standard for keg couplers in Oz, but will be one day. Les, the fella that lost his arm due to a lack of PRV on a coupler up your way will see it become a reality. That was an awful injury.
* assuming if you are removing the stem to clean a keg you have a A-type with no safety and a 1 piece body. These are the poorest designed keg stems and were endemic in the Shafer keg black plastic fleet that came cheap into Oz from Germany a few years ago after the Krouts found these kegs to be *****. Removing a stem from a D/S type is way harder, especially with the crappy cir-clip and the 2 euro cost. Commercial kegs are made to be cleaned upside down with flow though, so why change that.

Scotty

 

[///]

What’s wrong with phosphoric sanitisers? Everyone knows we don’t need to fear the foam. Next you’ll be telling us we don’t need kittens in our airlocks!! Feckin eejit.

Nothing, but the ***** needs to be cleared. Cornies are much easier as we usually dump in and dump out. Have had a few guys sell beer to us using Iodophor and not clear it out and the beer taste like crap. Also the phos sanitisers are good for high turnover tanks still under pressure and cold.

On Hols next week, keen for the usual Gong milk happy hour milk run on Thursday? Will sent a note on the IBU forum

 

[wynnum1]

If you do use caustic be careful it does injure permanently.

 

[S.E]

Didn’t mean to turn this thread into a keg cleaning safety debate. Just mentioned the caustic cleaning method as I assume OP is talking about filling the keg without being able remove the spear so would need to clean it with the spear in place also.

Blasting a couple litres of hot caustic up through the spear is a fast efficient way of cleaning a keg in just a few minutes using minimal water. If time isn’t an issue I guess it may be easier to stand the keg upright and fill it through the coupler with cold water and whatever cleaner you choose for an overnight soak.

Whatever chemicals you decide to use read the safety info on the container and don’t forget to have your work checked over by a licensed professional cleaner.