Toasting oats presoaked in water

[captain crumpet]

I haven't been able to find much information on this idea so am going to take one for the team.

I have toasted oats before with great results. I now want to see how far the colouring can be pushed. The idea of presoaking serves two purposes. One it will help the oats cook more evenly and two it will allow for longer times and higher temperatures without scorching and burning. Hopefully it will achieve a better mallard reaction.

The final product will be used in a base beer of 90% gladfield aamerican ale and 10% soaked toasted oats. When i cube it up I will be splitting batch into an esb and a stout using cold steep liquids.

I will be updating as it unfolds.

 

[technobabble66]

Definitely interested to see how this works out.
I'm curious as to how much water you'll be adding to the oats to do the boil, and hence what temperatures you think you'll be hitting?

My thinking is that, similar to making Belgian Candi syrup, with a reasonable amount of water present, you're generally hitting 100*C, as the water boils off (past a critical threshold) the temperature starts to rise while boiling. This works well with a sugar syrup as it can keep circulating to prevent scorching, however the oats solution won't (it'll have to be quite thick I'd assume to go much over 100*C) so you'll have to keep stirring the whole time. (Probably stating the obvious but thought I'd mention it).
Report back!

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Rolled oats, hydrated, heated makes Porridge. Or a brick of glue?
Keep us updated I'm confused on the method.

 

[AJS2154]

Do it, do it, do it. I'll hold your coat Captain Crumpet. You are fully outside the box, buddy.

Count me in, I am interested too.

 

[Stouter]

Excuse the dumb question, but I'm lacking in the leap from soaking to toasting, or the other way around, and I even had porridge for breakfast this morning.
Step by step from cutting open the oats packet, to mashing in, how's this process work?

 

[droid]

I wonder how a pressure cooker would go?

 

[AJS2154]

I suspect you will spend 3 days scrubbing oats off the bottom of the pressure cooker......only sound will be bossgirl in the background saying......I told you that was a bad idea.

I hate it when that happens.

 

[drsmurto]

I don't see how you are favouring the maillard reaction by introducing a large amount of water given your method is indirect heating.

I'd stick to toasting and just do it longer at a lower temperature.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

It is routine to steam oats before rolling them so I think you could do that before re-toasting as well. The water should increase the Maillard* reactions because you are more likely to get release of sugars and amino acids to participate in them, though the process will take longer since you'll need to flash off the water to reach the temperature required.

That being said, IIRC normally the toasting process occurs before the steaming / rolling process. I wouldn't go with soaking, one of the objects of these processing steps is to kill the lipase enzymes in the groat to reduce oxidative staling in the end product. This would also have killed off most of the amylases present.

A long time ago I was a process engineer at Australia's largest oat processor but I didn't work in that section so I can't remember the exact details.


*Note spelling, it's not a duck.

 

[technobabble66]

... *Note spelling, it's not a duck.

Wait ... aren't we talking about feeding oats to ducks?!?

 

[Mardoo]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably not porridge.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Black Duck Valley Wild Oats

 

[AJS2154]

Wait ... aren't we talking about feeding oats to ducks?!?

Oh, who gives a duck?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

If you want Maillard think about Decoction mashing. I do at least one decoction standard now but if you do infusion step mashing then do Decoctions.

 

[MHB]

As we are talking unmalted oats, I suspect there is going to be a very real shortage of Amylase and smaller sugars, for rolled oats (total soluble sugars <1%) lots of lipids (total fats ~6.5%) about double barley.
Be much more interesting if you were playing around with malted oat, then you could make some crystal (rather than buy the one already available), or sprouting your own, "Munich" or "Vienna" Oats...
Mark

 

[technobabble66]

(namely @LC/MHB),
So if we're talking hydrated heating methods, is there any worth considering either of the following 2 options:
Firstly, do a (very) thick mash with 1:1 ratio of oats:ale malt, sit at 45°C for 20mins, then do a sacch step (63-66°C) and either:
1) boil long and hard (with the grains still in) to thicken further and caramelise. Might need a dilution at the end to rinse everything.
2) Mash out/drain, then do a caramelisation step with the run-off.

I was simply wondering if either of these might be a good way to enhance the general oaty element and any unique oaty maillard or caramelisation derivatives. Obviously the 2nd option is a pretty regular wort caramelisation step, just with a more highly concentrated oaty wort. The first is a bit more questionable in that it's reducing the wort to a thicker syrup while the grains are still in there. Given decoctions boil the mash with grains, i'm assuming the initial phase of this would be fine. It's more a question of whether the more syrupy part of the boil would start extracting/forming desirable or undesirable compounds.
The one redeeming feature of these 2 options is that the starch component of the oats (& malt) should be fully converted so that's at least one main scorching risk removed.

I'm inclined to think dry toasting is still going to be the best way to get the more desirable oaty elements out of the oats, but i'm just throwing a few ideas out there.

 

[captain crumpet]

Am at work so will give peoper report tomorrow. What i have essentially ended up with it oat damper. Soaked oats with boiled water straight off stove, think it was 3L to cover 500g of oats. After 30 minutes it had turned into a bowl of goop. Spread on a baking tray and cooked in oven over 2 hours. Every 20 minutes or so i stirred it up and tried to break it down into smaller clumps. The water content prevented burning and allowed me to cook it all to an dark amber/ brown.

The smell and taste is very different to the standard dry baking/toasting. The damper version is really nutty and bready. Will add photos tomorrow.