Titanium brew gear

[altone]

Ok,, I know this might sound a bit weird but any metallurgy experts out there..

I have a medical grade titanium rack to keep a biab bag away from the heating elements.

My wife had it made specially by some guy at the medical company she works for - so I have to use it.

I'm thinking it should be fine as it's the stuff they bolt broken bones together with.

But does anyone actually know if there may be any issues using it?

It'll be in a converted commercial SS keg with 2x SS heating elements under it.

I normally use PBW for cleaning and wonder also if that might do anything nasty.

I think I'm already on the CIA watchlist for some of the things I've been looking up relating to this
[don't laugh, I AM on a CIA watchlist for other technical reasons - don't ask how I know - it's part of the reason ]

So anyone with actual first hand or theoretical scientific knowledge want to let me know?

If not I'll just use it till it melts.

Cheers

Gerry C

 

[BradG]

I think will be fine. Used in medical applications as you said, and pharma process plants.

 

[altone]

I think will be fine. Used in medical applications as you said, and pharma process plants.

Yep I thought so too , I might check whether the alkaline cleaner will cause issues though.

Cheers



Ok it seems that implant Titanium is often alkali treated to help bonding properties, so I'm guessing nothing to worry about as far as cleaning is concerned

Who is up for a Titanium APA?

 

[barls]

send john palmer an email. he will answer

 

[feralbass]

You will have no dramas mate, Titanium have ever better chemical resistant properties than stainless and lighter in weight.

 

[altone]

You will have no dramas mate, Titanium have ever better chemical resistant properties than stainless and lighter in weight.

And a helluva lot stronger - I tried to bend the legs out a bit and couldn't budge them by hand.
Stainless would have bent easily.

It's probably the most expensive bag guard in brewing history if I'd had to pay for it though.

Cheers


Edited: Just a thought - does this qualify me for the brew bling competition? Huh what do you mean there isn't one?

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Titanium is a bit like aluminum on steroids: yes it's corrosion resistant due to the surface oxide layer but underneath that is a very reactive metal. Titanium will burn in air if you get it hot enough. This is unlikely to happen unless you have a very high surface area; quite spectacular when it does, though, it burns with a brilliant white flame.

You'll be fine as long as you don't disturb the surface oxide layer. To do this you need to get it very hot (600 oC plus) or expose it to a combination of alkali and peroxide.

The first is pretty unlikely unless it actually contacts the heating element.

The second is slightly more likely but easy to avoid if you are aware of it. Perchlorate is not alkaline enough to have any effect but a mixture of sodium hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide can be*.

BTW Titanium is stronger than the common austenitic grades of stainless but there are other grades of stainless that are much stronger than titanium. You aren't likely to see them, they cost a fortune. All grades of stainless are roughly twice as stiff as any grade of titanium.



* I use 1M NaOH + 1M H2O2 to etch titanium bike parts before bonding. It's very effective, especially at elevated temperature ( 60 - 70 oC)

 

[indica86]

And a helluva lot stronger

Yet the ti flex is the thing that makes it work for bikes and handlebars,,,,

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

People confuse strength and stiffness all the time.

Taking two objects of the same dimensions, one made of 6Al4V Ti alloy (the grade of Ti most likely to have been used above) and one made of 304 stainless (typical SS grade for brewing equipment)

The Ti part will take about half as much force as the stainless one to produce a given amount of flex from which it will spring back (eg below the elastic limit).

The Ti part will take about three times as much force before it starts to bend enough to take a permanent set (eg above the elastic limit).

Logically, this means the Ti part will flex about six times as far before you make it take a permanent set*.

In engineering terms: the Ti has about half the modulus ( ~100 GPa vs ~200 GPa) but about three times the yield strength (~900 MPa vs ~300 MPa)



* this assumes the maximal stress is proportional to the degree of flexure, not necessarily the case.

 

[peteru]

So titanium would make better springs / shock absorbers. Right?

 

[indica86]

Yep... Does in MTB anyway.

 

[TheWiggman]

No, springs really need to be made of steel because this has an 'endurance limit'. Other metals and materials do not. An endurance limit is a limit of the amount of stress the steel could undertake that it would theoretically never fatigue and break. Go above this stress and it will have a finite life. Titanium on the other hand has no such limit, and given enough repeated cycles of stress, however low, will eventually fatigue and break.
Shock absorbers are dampers, a different concept.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

You sure of that? Ti alloys generally quote a high cycle endurance limit, much like steel alloys.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Photo's

 

[altone]

You'll be fine as long as you don't disturb the surface oxide layer. To do this you need to get it very hot (600 oC plus) or expose it to a combination of alkali and peroxide.

Isn't PBW mainly Sodium Percarbonate which breaks down into peroxide and sodium carbonate? and i think that would be alkali and peroxide albeit most likely far weaker
than the etch you use.

Perhaps I'd better avoid getting PBW anywhere near it and just use hot water to clean it.



not very blingy.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

There's a mistake in my post: I said perchlorate when I meant percarbonate. The carbonate isn't a strong enough alkali to get you into trouble.

 

[MHB]

Isn't PBW mainly Sodium Percarbonate which breaks down into peroxide and sodium carbonate? and i think that would be alkali and peroxide albeit most likely far weaker
than the etch you use.

Perhaps I'd better avoid getting PBW anywhere near it and just use hot water to clean it.



not very blingy.

Bling enough for me!
I know a bit about metal work, Mostly work in Stainless but having done some work with Ti will say that is a really well made piece of kit, you are a lucky man.
If you want it to look right sexy, heat it up until it turns black, slinky as...
mark

 

[TheWiggman]

You sure of that? Ti alloys generally quote a high cycle endurance limit, much like steel alloys.

No I'm not. On closer inspection titanium alloys DO have an endurance limit. In fact it is only Ti and steels that have the said endurance limit.
Titanium alone however I'm not sure, but who really cares because that's not a consumer product

Wish I could edit my other post like I could this one.

 

[dannymars]

not very blingy.

blingy-est cake rack I've ever seen.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

not very blingy.