Tips for Lager Brewing

[Phoney]

The best tip I ever picked up with lagers/pils was the Brulosophy lager method. Three weeks from grain to brain instead of faffing about waiting for months.

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

I'm a big fan of good lager beer- Marzen, Schwarzbier, and German Pils are all some of favorite styles. As a homebrewer, I initially avoided making lager due to my inability to precisely control temperature (I maintain that good lagers require the ability to control ferm temps). Once I finally got my fermentation chamber setup and made a couple lagers using more traditional fermentation schedules, I found myself avoiding them due to how long they took to finish. Awhile back, I started messing around with the following method for fermenting good lager that takes significantly less time:

• 
  Chill wort to pitching temp (48-53F), pitch adequately sized starter (decanted), set regulator to initial fermentation temp (50-55F), and leave beer to ferment 5 days. (+5 days)
  
• 
  On the morning of the 5th day (beer should be over 50% attenuated), remove probe from side of fermenter so it measures ambient temp inside chamber and bump regulator up 3F; continue raising ambient temp 3F every 12 hours or so until you reach 65F then leave it for 2-3 days to finish fermenting and cleaning up. (+2 days = 7 days)
  
• 
  On about day 10, start ramping (ambient) temp down 5F every 12 hours until it reaches 30-32F and let it cold crash/lager for 3-4 more days. (+7 days = 14 days)
  
• 
  Rack cold (and usually very clear) beer to kegs, put kegs in keezer on gas, leave for a week, serve! (+7 days = 21 days)
  

I know a lot of folks will think this method is complete ********, I know I did the first time I heard of it. However, after using it myriad times with various styles, I can tell you, it works amazingly well. My beers come out crisp and clean with none of the esters I feared might show up. If you can, give it a shot!
These photos show the beer at 20 and 22 days from when they were brewed, just as bright as the lagers that took me twice as long.
Cheers!

 

[Rocker1986]

Interesting how you can leave the beer to ferment for 5 days before raising the temp on the morning of the 5th day (only 4 days have passed)... it would actually be the morning of the 6th day, but anyway..

The thing with that lager method is using the SG more than time to make temp changes. I use the method myself and while I am not kegging the beer after 14 days, I'm not leaving it for months either. It takes about 4 weeks with my current method but only because I let it cold crash for two weeks in the FV instead of one. I've tried kegging them after only one week and the result was not as good as two weeks. I normally begin the temp raise on the 6th or 7th day depending on the SG, and leave it up there until the 15th day when it's dropped to 0C for that two weeks.

The other thing I have noticed with batches that have been kegged, then carbonated and tapped a few days later is that the more time they sit cold in the kegerator whilst on tap, the better they get, so there must be something more to this extended lagering than just dropping **** out of the beer. Other ones that sit in the keg for a few weeks before being tapped don't seem to improve quite as much, i.e. they are already excellent.

 

[TheWiggman]

... so there must be something more to this extended lagering than just dropping **** out of the beer.

Completely, forgive me for seeming surprised that this is not well understood. One such snippet from Braukaiser (which I consider to be a reliable source) -

"When the beer is conditioned at low temperatures various processes take place that lead to the smooth character which is expected from a lager:

• Proteins and polyphenols (tannins) form agglomerations (basically bind with each other to form larger molecules) which become insoluble and precipitate out of solution. [Nguyen 2007]
• Hop polyphenols will drop out leading to milder hop bitterness
• Yeast sediment which cleans up the beer and removes the yeasty smell and taste associated with young beer
• Some of the alcohols and acids form esters in the beer which leads to new flavor compounds. This process is very slow and becomes only significant after more than 12 weeks [Narziss 2005].
• Some yeast activity may be present which leads to further clean-up and extract reduction of the beer. I oftentimes see another extract drop of 0.1 - 0.2 Plato over the course of a few weeks."

I'd also suggest people challenge the idea of a diacetyl rest. General advice on brewing forums seems to be it is a necessary part of the process to 'clean up the yeast', but why is it necessary? If you use a good pitch of healthy yeast into decent wort and your ferment temperature is appropriate there shouldn't be a need. I don't subscribe to the idea of "it doesn't matter so do it anyway", do it with purpose or don't do it at all. If
I've tried the Brulosophy method and personally I think there is some confirmation bias going on. I've done it before and went "hey, decent lager!". Then a few weeks later the beer improved. I tried it again and the next beer was not as good, in fact pretty average. One more brew later the method was different again (no diacetyl rest, 7 days at 11-12­°C, huge yeast pitch) and it was decent after 2 weeks. Water quality, good/fresh ingredients and yeast health have far greater impact on the final beer in my opinion and experience.

 

[Kumamoto_Ken]

I have a question for all you lager experts, although it relates to a Kolsch (my first) I'm fermenting.

I've followed the Brewing Classic Styles Kolsch recipe. Fermented using WLP029 and has been at 16C for a couple of weeks. Pending a hydro reading tonight I plan to lager it for four weeks as per the BCS recommendation.

Should I transfer off the yeast before dropping the temp or just leave it in the current FV? I've used the search function and the opinions vary both ways.
Leaving it as it is will give about 6 weeks total on the yeast...too long? I am extremely lazy so not having to transfer is an attractive option to me.

On a side note, this had better be a bloody nice beer. I'm not used to one brew hogging up my ferm fridge for this long.

 

[klangers]

I just crash it without a second transfer.

If I had a conical FV I'd drain off the yeast sediment and then crash it. But I don't, so I have to live without such luxuries. I haven't noticed any impact on the beer and it still becomes crystal clear.

Commercially they crop off the yeast a couple times during primary fermentation before transferring to the mat tanks. The reasons for this are less about impact on beer and more about harvesting yeast and preventing the lines blocking up. The pro brewers on this forum should be able to shed more light on this - I'm just the engineer who designs what they tell me to.

 

[Kumamoto_Ken]

I just crash it without a second transfer.

If I had a conical FV I'd drain off the yeast sediment and then crash it. But I don't, so I have to live without such luxuries. I haven't noticed any impact on the beer and it still becomes crystal clear.

Thanks klangers, I appreciate the advice. Even better, it was the answer I wanted to hear!

 

[labels]

In answer to Wiggman's post, I consider the Braukaiser information in your post to be pretty accurate.
In regards to your comment on Diacetyl, some yeast strains produce more than others, and by a considerable amount and, it's not just lager yeast strains, a lot of ale strains produce lots of diacetyl. Only thing being of course, ales are fermented at higher temps and so diacetyl is not a problem.
Warming the beer up part way through fermentation does a lot more than clean up diacetyl. There are other fermentation by-products such as acetaldehyde and it also speeds up the entire process so you can drink the beer sooner. It also adds peace of mind that terminal gravity is reached which is important for naturally conditioned bottled beer - providing you left it up at the elevated temp long enough.
Your comments on big pitch, healthy yeast and temp control are spot-on.

 

[Rocker1986]

Thanks for the information on the lagering process. I knew there was more to it than just dropping stuff out given the noticeable improvement in the beer, but I'd never really looked into it overly. I really need to get a third fridge that I can store full kegs in, that way they're not tying up the fermenter for too long and they can just lager in the keg. I still like to raise the temp towards the end of fermentation, it's more about making sure the thing finishes than anything else but if there are other benefits to it then it gives me more reason to keep doing it.

In any case, aside from two batches (one was a **** recipe, the other a **** brewing process issue), they've all come out very tasty and brilliantly clear, especially after a 3-4 week sit in the keg in the fridge. :wub:

 

[Tony121]

I've been listening to Brew Strong podcasts lately due to the predictable nature of Sydney traffic.

Couple of things I picked up specifically related to this conversation are 1. Raising temp at approx. 2/3 of the way through ferment mainly to ensure the yeast fully attenuates (which Labels touched on) and; 2. Cold crashing Lagers can be detrimental as it stresses the yeast. The best method according to Jamil is to lower 1 deg. C per day until Lager temps achieved, say 3 deg. C and hold for a week, yeast will continue to clean up the whole way down (this is again something that Labels touches on earlier in this thread).

Anyway, I found it interesting.

 

[labels]

I've been listening to Brew Strong podcasts lately due to the predictable nature of Sydney traffic.

Couple of things I picked up specifically related to this conversation are 1. Raising temp at approx. 2/3 of the way through ferment mainly to ensure the yeast fully attenuates (which Labels touched on) and; 2. Cold crashing Lagers can be detrimental as it stresses the yeast. The best method according to Jamil is to lower 1 deg. C per day until Lager temps achieved, say 3 deg. C and hold for a week, yeast will continue to clean up the whole way down (this is again something that Labels touches on earlier in this thread).

Anyway, I found it interesting.

There are quite a few differing opinions in this thread but none of them are wrong. The mehodology I use is something that I have developed over many years and I am still looking at ways to improve it - I don't stand still on the way I do things and there is always more to learn.

I still stick to the same basic principles I started with only because I haven't found anything better yet. In the begining it took 35 days to get to where I wanted. Now it's 28 days but - needs a week longer in the keg to smooth out. Six of one etc.

I have tried a 21 day turnaround and then warm condition in the keg for one week. That works okay too but there is always a payback. The beer isn't as smooth as cold conditioning which produces a much more refined taste. A bit like comparing two Aussie draught lagers say, Carlton draught and Boags premium lager. (They're both pretty easy to get close to on a home brew scale as well) .

Just stick with what works for you and if it's okay, run with it but, my philosophy is - your beer should be at least as good or better than the commercial examples you're trying to replicate (style - not a particular brand)

 

[Rocker1986]

I have to admit I do enjoy my own brewed lagers more than any commercially available ones. I've worked out a recipe I like a hell of a lot and stick to it. The only questionable process I probably use is crashing them to 0C after the period sitting warm. It takes a day or two to get there, but I don't really have time to be taking 2 weeks to drop it by 1 degree a day. Maybe they'd taste a bit better doing that but at this point it would cause me to not be able to keep up supply with demand. But, they still taste better than commercial lagers and that's all I'm aiming for really. B)

 

[labels]

I have to admit I do enjoy my own brewed lagers more than any commercially available ones. I've worked out a recipe I like a hell of a lot and stick to it. The only questionable process I probably use is crashing them to 0C after the period sitting warm. It takes a day or two to get there, but I don't really have time to be taking 2 weeks to drop it by 1 degree a day. Maybe they'd taste a bit better doing that but at this point it would cause me to not be able to keep up supply with demand. But, they still taste better than commercial lagers and that's all I'm aiming for really. B)

If it works, stick with it. I too find dropping 1 degree per day is tedious. Instead, my newer method is to crash from warm back to fermentation temps, in my case crash from 20C back to 12C then one degree in the morning and one degree at night. That speeds things up considerably but overcomes any shortcomings in crashing from 20C to 0C.

 

[Tony121]

There are quite a few differing opinions in this thread but none of them are wrong. The mehodology I use is something that I have developed over many years and I am still looking at ways to improve it - I don't stand still on the way I do things and there is always more to learn.

I still stick to the same basic principles I started with only because I haven't found anything better yet. In the begining it took 35 days to get to where I wanted. Now it's 28 days but - needs a week longer in the keg to smooth out. Six of one etc.

I have tried a 21 day turnaround and then warm condition in the keg for one week. That works okay too but there is always a payback. The beer isn't as smooth as cold conditioning which produces a much more refined taste. A bit like comparing two Aussie draught lagers say, Carlton draught and Boags premium lager. (They're both pretty easy to get close to on a home brew scale as well) .

Just stick with what works for you and if it's okay, run with it but, my philosophy is - your beer should be at least as good or better than the commercial examples you're trying to replicate (style - not a particular brand)

Completely agree, if it works for you go for it.

I still think I'm very much new to brewing, only 2 yrs of all grain, and constantly learning new things (though seems I don't have time to try them all).

Edit - Please note that I wasn't saying anyone was wrong, I am in no position to do that, I was just offering up another opinion.

 

[Rocker1986]

If it works, stick with it. I too find dropping 1 degree per day is tedious. Instead, my newer method is to crash from warm back to fermentation temps, in my case crash from 20C back to 12C then one degree in the morning and one degree at night. That speeds things up considerably but overcomes any shortcomings in crashing from 20C to 0C.

I might try that next time I ferment a lager, as I've got an extra keg of porter that was done early this year that can ease the pressure on keeping supply up soon. I suspect the next lager will be fermented when that porter will be next in line for a tap so I'll only have to get two batches fermented and kegged in the same time I normally take to ferment and keg three.

 

[dr K]

You can brew a "lager" any way you like if you call it a lager..well I guess it is!
Fermentation is the key here, Budjovice ferment at no higher than 7 degrees C, and yes it takes time
I too am unsure of the need for a DA rest when the beer has fermented for 15 0r 20 days at 7C, but I do subscribe to the thought that an increase at end might well finish the beer.
Of course then the beer needs to be lagered.
I make one Czech Pils a year so I am possibly not a good source for advice.

K

 

[Haciluku]

Finish your beer with a few days at 20C until there are zero bubbles on the surface then crash chill back to 12C and then 1C per day only to 3C. Hold at 3C for three days, drop to -2C for conditioning a few days. Keg, carbonate and leave the keg another week.

Labels, I am trying your method for my Boh Pils.
Started at 14C (OG1050, mashed at 66C)
14C - 5 days
17C - 1 days (gravity drops to 1010)
20C - 13 days (today) - Checking this morning, there are still some bubbles on the surface, tiny one and a few 1cm bubbles. Can see the bubble floats from the bottom of fermenter if I move it. Gravity drops to 1008.
Questions:
- Any issue if it stays at 20C for that long?
- Can I crash chill to 12C now?

 

[labels]

Don't take the bubbles on top too literally, what I am suggesting is that when the krausen has fallen it's a good indication that you have reached final gravity. Crash back to 12°C, then as you had it warm for longer than is necessary, you can drop from 12°C to zero over the next 3-5 days or thereabouts and leave it for a week to clear.

If you want to add gelatine for clarity, do so when you are at 12°C

 

[Haciluku]

Thanks Labels. I will drop it to 12C, and add gelatine.
Do I still need to hold it at 3C for 3 days, before bringing it to zero or -2C?

 

[Rocker1986]

This reminds me, I kegged my Bo Pils yesterday that had been sitting at 0C for 2 weeks. This was the one that had the experimental flameout addition of Saaz. Still no grassy flavours; it was slightly more bitter than usual but I expect that will mellow out during the time between now and when it ends up on tap. Having said that, most of the time when I try beers at kegging time they're more bitter than they end up once on tap so it's pretty much business as usual. Flavor was very promising though, keen to try it carbonated!

 

[Hpal]

Have fermenting now a double batch of a Pilsner with some late Saaz in my new stainless pressure fermenter, I gave oxygenation a go for the for the first time and had a very vigorous start. Quite pleased.