Thoughts On Vegetarianism

[manticle]

And that loss is only the ones not eating there are more.

Our sheep in Australia also our cows are treated well in our farming practises its once they have left our shore where it goes wrong. Its all about the money.

Pigs are another story altogether but i beleive it is getting better.

Without getting into the religious part of why they are transported live. Is it cheaper to send the sheep live??? Could you imagine how much it would cost to have a ship that size as a freezer?

My understanding is that the meat simply will not be bought unless it is live (specifically to middle eastern countries) I haven't delved that far into it. Live trade exists because that part of the market will otherwise be removed.

 

[Katherine]

if you vegans care so much about sheep why do you want to export them dead? MURDERERS!!!!

Im no vegan or vegetarian... Its about fair treatment...

 

[Katherine]

My understanding is that the meat simply will not be bought unless it is live (specifically to middle eastern countries) I haven't delved that far into it. Live trade exists because that part of the market will otherwise be removed.

That is correct, but if everybody stopped doing it what would happen then?

We still need to have the lamb here, Australia Day is coming up!

 

[manticle]

You speak the words of a fuckwit.

Right up until this point, every post has retained an element of civility. Sure Mark's was a tasteless joke but in general the thread has held back from useless hurling of insults. It was a breath of fresh air for a while.

If you have a point, make it. Make it the best articulated point you can and make others consider it. Or call someone a fuckwit and be ignored.

 

[manticle]

That is correct, but if everybody stopped doing it what would happen then?

We still need to have the lamb here, Australia Day is coming up!

Presumably the middle east would raise their own and we would lose a market.

That wouldn't trouble me. I don't find that market justifiable by my own ethical standards.

Yes I eat lamb.

 

[Katherine]

Now the PIGS...

Another barbaric practise which lead me to eat only organic or free range pork.

Pregnant pigs can be kept for their entire 4 month pregnancy in a tiny metal stall not much bigger than the size of their bodies. Nursing mothers are similary confined. Unable to interact with their babies they watch helpessly as their piglets have their tails cut off and teeth c lipped without pain relief. Male piglest are castrated without anaesthetic.

They can not turn around, they can not exersise. They have no bedding, they are forced to lie on hard floors.
Just prior to giving birth they are moved to a nursery (ha) .... Pending mothers are confined in an even small area where their body is incircled by metal bars to even further limite their movement. Once again no bedding. Nuturing and interacting with her young is impossible.

She will watch on helplessly as her babies have their teeth clipped, their tails cut off, and are castrated without pain relief. Her young are removed after 3 or 4 weeks, she is impregnated again, and the cycle of suffering and deprivation continues.

Pigs are very intelligent... not much different to your family dog.

There are legal exceptions to pig farmers to prevent them from being prosecuted for animal cruelty so they can maximise their profits.

 

[Katherine]

Presumably the middle east would raise their own and we would lose a market.

That wouldn't trouble me. I don't find that market justifiable by my own ethical standards.

Yes I eat lamb.

Exactly the same feeling. It angers me that we allow it to happen to our animals just for a profit.

 

[Dave70]

Choosing not to eat meat - or any animal based protein for that sake - is like turning your back on 10,000 years of human evolution, which is clearly ******* idiotic.
Like that wanker celeb chef on the box at the moment telling us that ' Like me, 2 out of 3 Australians are trying to eat less meat'. People of his ilk would like to see all of us replace our lamb chop with a lump of plant semen (soy).
Clearly he's a ******* idiot also.
Do your homework and you come to realize what a load of horse shit this whole campaign against meats and saturated fat is. This is the result of corporate propaganda and flawed science being manipulated into conventional, accepted wisdom.

Vegetarianism and its variations may be the new black in some circles, but it's retarded, ignorant, and I'm sure on some Freudian level, attention seeking behaviour. (I can say that cos my sister is vegan..)

Oh yeah, plants have feelings to you know.

 

[Acasta]

I think people over estimate the human race. Animals eat other animals. We are animals, and we like to think we are alot more evolved, but really we just go with our instinct.

 

[tourist]

Right up until this point, every post has retained an element of civility. Sure Mark's was a tasteless joke but in general the thread has held back from useless hurling of insults. It was a breath of fresh air for a while.

If you have a point, make it. Make it the best articulated point you can and make others consider it. Or call someone a fuckwit and be ignored.

Manticle. Is A Fuckwit.....someone who would say something like "I don't care, they're sheep"? I thought so.

But I never called anyone such, let's make that clear.

Articulate enough?

I'm a meat-eater who is moving on from this drivel.

 

[.DJ.]

Choosing not to eat meat - or any animal based protein for that sake - is like turning your back on 10,000 years of human evolution, which is clearly ******* idiotic.
Like that wanker celeb chef on the box at the moment telling us that ' Like me, 2 out of 3 Australians are trying to eat less meat'. People of his ilk would like to see all of us replace our lamb chop with a lump of plant semen (soy).
Clearly he's a ******* idiot also.
Do your homework and you come to realize what a load of horse shit this whole campaign against meats and saturated fat is. This is the result of corporate propaganda and flawed science being manipulated into conventional, accepted wisdom.

Vegetarianism and its variations may be the new black in some circles, but it's retarded, ignorant, and I'm sure on some Freudian level, attention seeking behaviour. (I can say that cos my sister is vegan..)

Oh yeah, plants have feelings to you know.

How does someone being vegan/vego directly effect you though? Why do you care so much?

 

[MarkBastard]

Manticle. Is A Fuckwit.....someone who would say something like "I don't care, they're sheep"? I thought so.

But I never called anyone such, let's make that clear.

Articulate enough?

I'm a meat-eater who is moving on from this drivel.

Someone asked my opinion and I gave it. I don't remember asking for yours.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Choosing not to eat meat - or any animal based protein for that sake - is like turning your back on 10,000 years of human evolution, which is clearly ******* idiotic.
Like that wanker celeb chef on the box at the moment telling us that ' Like me, 2 out of 3 Australians are trying to eat less meat'. People of his ilk would like to see all of us replace our lamb chop with a lump of plant semen (soy).
Clearly he's a ******* idiot also.
Do your homework and you come to realize what a load of horse shit this whole campaign against meats and saturated fat is. This is the result of corporate propaganda and flawed science being manipulated into conventional, accepted wisdom.

Vegetarianism and its variations may be the new black in some circles, but it's retarded, ignorant, and I'm sure on some Freudian level, attention seeking behaviour. (I can say that cos my sister is vegan..)

Oh yeah, plants have feelings to you know.

Choosing to respect black people - or to like homosexuals for that sake - is like turning your back on 10,000 years of human evolution, which is clearly ******* idiotic.
Like that wanker Martin Luther King on the box at the moment telling us that 'he has a dream'. People of his ilk would like to see us all share equal footing with monkeys!
Clearly he's a ******* idiot also.
Do your homework and you come to realize what a load of horse shit this whole campaign for gays and blacks is. This is the result of corporate propaganda and flawed science being manipulated into conventional, accepted wisdom.


Blacks and gays and their variations may be the new black in some circles, but they are retarded, ignorant, and I'm sure on some Freudian level, attention seeking. (I can say that cos my sister is gay and black).

 

[Ronin]

Choosing not to eat meat - or any animal based protein for that sake - is like turning your back on 10,000 years of human evolution, which is clearly ******* idiotic.
Like that wanker celeb chef on the box at the moment telling us that ' Like me, 2 out of 3 Australians are trying to eat less meat'. People of his ilk would like to see all of us replace our lamb chop with a lump of plant semen (soy).
Clearly he's a ******* idiot also.
Do your homework and you come to realize what a load of horse shit this whole campaign against meats and saturated fat is. This is the result of corporate propaganda and flawed science being manipulated into conventional, accepted wisdom.

Vegetarianism and its variations may be the new black in some circles, but it's retarded, ignorant, and I'm sure on some Freudian level, attention seeking behaviour. (I can say that cos my sister is vegan..)

Oh yeah, plants have feelings to you know.

I agree with manticle, this has been a quite civil discussion, except for some. This post adds nothing to the discussion.

Do you have any idea of the science? How many journal articles have you read regarding the links between meat consumption and vascular disease, heart disease, stroke, colon cancer? Do you know how to access scientific literature? I'm assuming that you have some sort of institutional access to a database like pubmed to be making claims like that regarding scientific conspiracies funded by vegetarian societies aimed at preventing the consumption of meat.

People misquoting science pisses me off. There are very few, extremely few, papers out the that recommend the increased consumption of meat. And guess where the funding for those comes from? Meat industries.

So in our 10,000 years of evolution, for how long have we been intensively farming animals? For how long have pigs been raised in pens that prevent them from turning around? How long have chickens been bred to grow so fast and stuffed full of antibiotics under the guise of growth promoters that their bones can't keep up and they end up immobile?

You'll actually find that some people, vegetarians even, are remarkable well informed and have made conscious decisions not to support such practices.

I have no problem with people eating meat and I recognise that it is a traditional part of our diet. However, modern practices leave a lot to be desired.

If you don't care about the source of your food and hava no empathy for those who lose their lives so that you can gorge yourself at a BBQ I pity you,

Now go away so that the rest of us can have a civil discussion,

James

PS, sorry to the rest of you for stooping to a response, but it annoyed me more than a little

 

[Ronin]

JonnyAnchovy, I really couldn't have said it better myself,

amazing post,

james

 

[MarkBastard]

JonnyAnchovy, there is no way it's the same thing. One is human rights and one is animal rights. His original argument, though unrefined, was based on diet and not ethics, and was at least partially correct.

The ethical debate surrounding this is philosophical and can be argued as such. The dietary side is scientific. It really annoys me when people try and use scientific arguments that they don't understand to back up their philosophical position. This goes for people on both sides.

What I would like to see is a vegan that admits to loving the taste of meat, missing the taste of meat, agreeing that it is good for your health, but choosing not to eat it based purely on the ethical considerations. I would respect this person a great deal indeed.

 

[Malted]

I'll throw something in for interest (or more correctly for stirring); I'd bet that most, if not all vegetarians, vegans etc have canine teeth...

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

JonnyAnchovy, there is no way it's the same thing. One is human rights and one is animal rights.

not sure I agree....

Doesn't the whole debate pivot around the politics of what we decide constitutes 'human', and why?

'human rights' sure has a lot of popular traction and appeal, but its a pretty vacuous concept, don't you think?

 

[Malted]

So in our 10,000 years of evolution, for how long have we been intensively farming animals?

So we're just talking about Europeans? Seems like a short time frame that may exclude a fair bit of hunting & gathering on the Australian continent...
Just a friendly stir; I am enjoying your reasoned responses.

 

[MarkBastard]

not sure I agree....

Doesn't the whole debate pivot around the politics of what we decide constitutes 'human', and why?

'human rights' sure has a lot of popular traction and appeal, but its a pretty vacuous concept, don't you think?

Some people have the ability to have empathy for animals at a different level to how they have empathy for humans. The two aren't always linked. That's where the difference is IMO.