Thoughts On Efficiency And Flavour.

[MHB]

TB you certainly get me thinking.
Couple of random thoughts, more of the other" base malts Munich and Vienna, I once did an all Munich 2 mash, I think syrupy would be a fair description.
Heavy mash as low as 2:1 should promote the flavours youre looking for, adjunct like Oats and Flaked Barley (is malted Oats an adjunct?) in higher than normal amounts should also move in the right direction.
Hoping the beer with older varieties, sure lowering the IBUs will make the beer taste malter but I find the old, what we now think of as finishing hops have a softer less intrusive hop character that leaves the malt out front.

So many factors in play and they will all change something about the beer this is what I love about brewing.

MHB
Oh and Chalk up the water

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I like amber malt personally - I sat down with my malt collection one day to work out how to compensate for my base malt (using bland mega brewery malt mostly - needs some help) and I decided that the one malt that came closest to the "difference" between a nice english marris otter and my malt - was amber malt. About 2% of the weight of pale I am using, I sub for amber. Same thing for lagers - but I use a melanoidin malt instead.

Both of those are supremely "malty" but without the sweet edge to them that munichs and viennas have - brown and mild malt have the same sort of stuff, but I have basically not brewed with those malts, only tasted them raw and in a "tea"

Amber gets a little harsh if you use too much though. I think its going to be the same wit most specialty malts - to much of any one, or too much in total is going to be malty... but not the right sort of malty. Thats why I have been thinking about techniques - so that you can go as far as possible with ingredients, then take it further with method.

The thoughts were prompted by a discussion about low alcohol beers - but that doesn't mean I wouln't be very happy to see if the technique parts might not translate to brewing other malt focused but "full strength" beers. Too easy to go overboard with specialty malts when trying to brew a scottish or an oktoberfest etc etc

Of course - we haven't even talked about decoction yet. No reason you cant do a decoction on a "light" beer

Can you expound on why you think a heavy mash would promote malty flavours?

 

[MHB]

Just one of those rules of thumb, may not be very scientific but thicker mashes for darker beers promoted a more malty nose and more body.
Just had a flick through Kunze on the subject of mashing in and there appear to be two apposing processes going on.
Thicker mashes can also increase the attenuation of the wort, depends on the temperature of the mash in, cool and heavy around 35-38C will see enzymes going into solution and hydration will increase the available starch granules giving more fermentable sugars.
Increased degradation of protein and b-glucan also provides more precursors for milliard reactions later in the process, as well as putting more small protein fragments into solution which contribute to mouth feel (body). Mind you they contribute to haze formation if the beer is getting some age on it best for running beers maybe.

Sounding more and more like an old fashioned Mild, mild malt is made from higher protein barley, amber and brown are made from mild malt, you have noticed the difference.

So it might be worth playing around with a heavy mash in then use hot (~90C) water to hit the scarification temperature. Back in the way back when, the malt was mashed in the night before at ambient temperatures then allowed to digest overnight lots of interesting things go into solution, some good some not, but thats brewing.

MHB

 

[muckanic]

Now if the malt flavor does not come from the sugar and just from what the warm mash water removes from the malt (like making tea) then conversion has little to do with it.

Last consider all the malts we use that need no conversion. We use them to add flavor.

I have at various times made a quick 'n' dirty stout which involved steeping the roast barley in hot water rather than mashing it, a bit like what some folks do with crystal malt. The steeped versions always have less of a coffee nose and are generally more bland. It could be that some starch conversion is necessary to liberate the flavouring (and colouring) compounds from whatever matrix they are embedded in. I haven't systematically tried the same test with crystal, but presumably there would be less effect due to it being pre-mashed.