This might work Nitrogen .......

[beerking]

I would like to try some Nitro beers but am cant afford a beer gas set up at the moment .Can I carbonate with Co2 (already have a Co2 bottle) and then serve with 100% nitrogen at around 30 psi via a stout tap. I can get my hands on a disposable nitrogen bottle (2.2kg) and regulator for around $100.00. Appreciate any feedback or advice by an experienced brewer using this method .

Cheers guys

 

[beerking]

Anybody?

 

[Bribie G]

It should work, the nitro mix 60/40 or 80/20 if I'm right adds C02 sparkle to the beer whilst still allowing some nitrogen to be forced into the beer to give the fine nucleation that produces the creamy head, and which is released by the "pressure plate" or whatever they call it in the stout tap. It's usually suggested to CO2 carb the beer as well for a while before switching bottles.
However do we really need that CO2 in the multimix?*

I'd carb the beer first but not too much , then switch bottles and put it on nitro at highest possible setting for a few days, crank that back and then serve.

*We are able to get "multimix" for home use because the pubs use heaps of it for longer beer lines that are common in venues with a central cold room and taps in remote bars. Plain CO2 in a long line will tend to break down or fizz the beer too much, so nitro gives the pushing power along the line but the CO2 gives the sparkle. Edit: the nitro in that case isn't there to give VB a Guinness head, it's just there for the pushing and doesn't stay there long enough or at enough pressure to permeate the beer. (end edit) All that doesn't really apply to us, as we are not using long lines and are using nitro for Guinness type heads. So maybe your method could give better results than multimix.

Make sure you keep us informed, if it works then it's a good way of getting into nitro, if others can get bottle and reg for same price.

 

[Bribie G]

Another thought: multimix used for home purposes will tend to keep on carbonating the beer in the keg leading to an increased frothing over the life of the keg. One of the reasons I suspect that multimix beer gas, whilst convenient to buy, maybe isn't the ideal system for home nitro serving.

You may well be on a winner there if you want to give it a whirl :beerbang:

Edit: If I could get into this at the same price, I'd give it a go myself as I don't do a heck of a lot of nitro brews but still shelling out forty bux a quarter on the bottle.

 

[beerking]

http://www.sourcingmap.com/reduced-pressure-flowmeter-decrement-gauge-nitrogen-gas-regulator-p-250896.html?currency=AUD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=aufroogle&gclid=CLLZtf-j5LsCFeU5Qgod3SQAbA

Hi Bribie
Thanks for your detailed response, reading on the homebrew.com forum it seems this method is being done by the yanks. If the beer is already carbonated I can't see why it shouldn't work and the 25% co2 in multimix can be allocated back into the beer with a quick top up if required, the only negative I can think of is you never quite know what the percentage of your mix is.

Tesuco here in australia sell the disposable nitrogen bottle 2.2kg .Price needs confirming as I am basing this on a ebay seller selling the same tesuco bottles in co2 or co2 and argon mixes for $60, can't see why nitrogen would be any
more expensive.

I can find this regulator , bloody link keeps going to the top, typing on a tablet............
and I already own a stout tap,purchased from ebay about $60 from memory, Country Trading Store .

n.b would need to work out a way to get from the bottle to the regulator , not really sure what the inlet on the regulator is?
Tesuco also have some regs but not sure about pricing.

All up no more than $200.????? Seems worth a try.

 

[Bribie G]

Aha bottle to regulator could be a problem. Even for "standard" BOC type cylinders The USA and the Australian connections are totally different as I discovered a couple of years ago and had to buy a nitro reg locally as the US one wasn't compatible. Lost about $80 on the deal, but heck ... what doesn't kill you....

Before purchasing I'd quiz Tesuco on that point.

 

[pcmfisher]

I don't think the 100% nitrogen would keep the beer carbonated.
Be ok if you poured the whole keg quickly, but as you said, you would probably have to top up with co2 at some stage.

 

[Beerisyummy]

I don't think the 100% nitrogen would keep the beer carbonated.
Be ok if you poured the whole keg quickly, but as you said, you would probably have to top up with co2 at some stage.

Wouldn't the pressure applied by the nitrogen be enough to stop co2 coming out of solution?

I'd love to have a house beer served with a nitro head if it was easy and cheap.


Edit: just had a sticky online for the disposable nitro and found they have a one off thread. M10 x1. You need their special reg me thinks.

 

[dblunn]

I bought a bottle of N2 and an adapter so you can use a standard CO2 regulator. I bought it a long time ago from a local HB shop, now long gone. If you carbonate it first then apply N2 (needs high pressure because the beer doesn't absorb much, bottle of gas lasts a long time too). The carbonation level (partial pressure) stays the same due to Dalton's gas law.

That Guinness / Kilkenny head is really nice on a beer.
Dave

 

[slcmorro]

30 psi. That's around 200kpa. Not sure if nitrogen makes a difference, but I don't serve my beers at anything above 50kpa really. I'd imagine it'd rocket out of the tap.

 

[dblunn]

The special taps/guns have restrictors in them to control the flow rate.

 

[Bribie G]

Stout tap, the plate causes very fine nucleation as the nitrogen comes out of solution. The system was worked out in Dublin in the late 1950s, originally the nitrogen was in the keg itself. I took my original nitrogen reg to a machine hydraulic connectors and bits workshop to see if I could get it adapted to a BOC style Aussie bottle and they all came round to look at the reg with disbelief, reckoned I could make an Al-Quaeda bomb out of it with those pressures.

 

[pcmfisher]

I bought a bottle of N2 and an adapter so you can use a standard CO2 regulator. I bought it a long time ago from a local HB shop, now long gone. If you carbonate it first then apply N2 (needs high pressure because the beer doesn't absorb much, bottle of gas lasts a long time too). The carbonation level (partial pressure) stays the same due to Dalton's gas law.

That Guinness / Kilkenny head is really nice on a beer.
Dave

I think you will find partial pressure of the co2 will fall as you pour the beer and the head space increases. Regardless of the pressure of the nitrogen, co2 will go from solution to the head space as if the N2 wasn't there. That is why they use N2/CO2 blends.

 

[dblunn]

Yes your absolutely correct! I did think of that. In practice though I have not noticed a lose of carbonation level, the beer does seem to taste a little sweeter due to the actual lower carbonation level vs. the massively creamy head.

 

[Beerisyummy]

Now, I might be going a bit off topic here. You can get "swap and go" oxygen bottles at Bunnings now.
Just saying.

I'm still struggling to find an easy, AS approved product, that is readily available on the mean streets.
Does anyone have a reliable source for these N2 bottles?

 

[esssee]

http://www.sourcingmap.com/reduced-pressure-flowmeter-decrement-gauge-nitrogen-gas-regulator-p-250896.html?currency=AUD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=aufroogle&gclid=CLLZtf-j5LsCFeU5Qgod3SQAbA

Hi Bribie
Thanks for your detailed response, reading on the homebrew.com forum it seems this method is being done by the yanks. If the beer is already carbonated I can't see why it shouldn't work and the 25% co2 in multimix can be allocated back into the beer with a quick top up if required, the only negative I can think of is you never quite know what the percentage of your mix is.

Tesuco here in australia sell the disposable nitrogen bottle 2.2kg .Price needs confirming as I am basing this on a ebay seller selling the same tesuco bottles in co2 or co2 and argon mixes for $60, can't see why nitrogen would be any
more expensive.

I can find this regulator , bloody link keeps going to the top, typing on a tablet............
and I already own a stout tap,purchased from ebay about $60 from memory, Country Trading Store .

n.b would need to work out a way to get from the bottle to the regulator , not really sure what the inlet on the regulator is?
Tesuco also have some regs but not sure about pricing.

All up no more than $200.????? Seems worth a try.

How did you end up going with this, Beerking?

I'd be interested to know, as I am looking for a No Fuss way to add Nitrogen to my Stout.

 

[skb]

Keen to find out result love the idea of a low cost nitrogen set up. The idea listed I notice is the same approach the northern brewer (US site) uses for its nitro kit. Basically carbonate the beer lightly them push out at 25psi through the stout tap ...

Mouth watering just at the thought of it

 

[Judanero]

As it has been little over a year, has anyone gone ahead with the proposed idea of carbonating a keg and then using one of those disposable N2 bottles to dispense?

Pretty keen on a dedicated stout tap and this arrangement would suit perfectly because I could keep the bottle and reg inside the fridge.

 

[lael]

Second that request. Love the mouthfeel of Guinness and Kilkenny on nitro. Would love a cheap solution. Has anyone bought from brewdog? Aka the assisted suicide guy? I would have moral conflicts doing it, but am tempted.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I wouldn't worry about moral conflicts Lael, in UK and US the gas of choice for suicide is helium, another gas readily available.
Using the hand pump would be the cheapest method to introduce a nitrogen, atmosphere has 78% nitrogen when that mixes with the carbonation level in the beer it comes out creamy with a nice mouth feel, I keep my CO2 levels low (naturally carbonated)