The New Unique Australian Beer

[eamonnfoley]

Think what decoctions did for German beers.

How about "What BIAB & no-chill did for Australian beers"

 

[jonocarroll]

How about "What BIAB & no-chill did for Australian beers"

Well, BIAB isn't uniquely Australian (not sure of the origins of no-chill), and doesn't (flame suit: activated) alter the qualities of a beer. But that is exactly the point I was trying to make - any new processes we come up with that do uniquely affect the qualities of beer (in a positive way of course) will be what defines an 'Australian Beer Style'.

BIAB and no-chill have done great things for Australian brewing - just not the beers or styles as such.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Well, BIAB isn't uniquely Australian (not sure of the origins of no-chill), and doesn't (flame suit: activated) alter the qualities of a beer. But that is exactly the point I was trying to make - any new processes we come up with that do uniquely affect the qualities of beer (in a positive way of course) will be what defines an 'Australian Beer Style'.

BIAB and no-chill have done great things for Australian brewing - just not the beers or styles as such.

Yeah I know - was saying it in jest. :icon_cheers: .

I think local yeast, hops and grain are enough to create a beer style, if there is enough creativity.........

 

[JoeG]

I'll add my $0.02 while I have a spare minute (edit: okay... that took a while);

What makes an 'English Beer' English - does it have tea and scones in it?

What makes a 'German Beer' German - is it particularly productive?

I doubt that when Pilsners were being created people thought 'what would be particularly Bavarian about this?' - they were using a new technique (lagering), and that gave the beers a distinct character. English beers aren't low carbonated because the creamy head reminds them of fog. I find it odd to try to force the idea of a (new) 'Australian Beer Style' by randomly introducing 'Australian... things'.

Apart from the argument of 'why does Australia even need a style?' - a respectable style should come about naturally, and be identified as 'Australian' because that's where it originated - why should you not be considering a large proportion of the English ingredients? A style that comes about naturally in Australia will probably have English roots.

As for Australians being big beer drinkers, that's a bit of a stretch. Other countries are proud of their world-class beers, exported and respected globally. As Aussies we (as in, the general population) seem to be overly proud of the mainstream swill produced for local consumption, but you wouldn't put it out to play with the big boys. Sure, craft brewing is taking off in a big way, but it's still very much a minority, and ignored by most of the population. The term 'craft-brew' is actually known throughout America, and these beers are sought-after, not just stumbled upon.

Now I'm all for craft-brewing, but I think this is where you'll need to look if you're ever going to see something 'Australian'. Even then, any 'new' style will likely fit somewhere in between BJCP styles, so it will be 'a bit of English with American notes', or whatever. As homebrewers we can play around with new techniques - and I believe that this is where those techniques will be developed - but those techniques will need to be picked up by micros before they get any good recognition.

I'm not trying to (entirely) discourage you, but rather make you think about 'what exactly it is that you're trying to do.' Although you'll likely make something quite nice with an interesting range of ingredients (and that's a great achievement) I think if you want to make 'a new style' you'll need to start looking into turning the entire process on it's head, and producing a new technique that gives a beer a distinct quality. Think what decoctions did for German beers. That may or may not come about by random trial and error, but education (one of the main reasons many people frequent this forum) is a great place to start.

:icon_offtopic:

I don't wish to be too picky here QB - but you may wish to read up on your beer history regarding pilsner. It had nothing to do with Bavarian brewers, and lagering as a brewing practice was around for a long time before Pilsner emerged as a style.

Anywho - back to the discussion.

Just brew it! All the recipes chucked about here sound pretty tasty.

Cheers

 

[jonocarroll]

:icon_offtopic:

I don't wish to be too picky here QB - but you may wish to read up on your beer history regarding pilsner. It had nothing to do with Bavarian brewers, and lagering as a brewing practice was around for a long time before Pilsner emerged as a style.

Anywho - back to the discussion.

Just brew it! All the recipes chucked about here sound pretty tasty.

Cheers

<insert overly long quote to reply to a single point raised>

Hey, you're right. That completely invalidates my entire argument. What was I thinking? Your insightful, and clearly well researched, point of "Just brew it, it will be yummy" really does have deep meaning for the concept of creating a completely new style of beer to be recognised alongside the classics. I've no doubt that in the past the Trappist monks have been known to utter "Go forth, brother, and brew for us a random mix of ingredients brought forth from the mountains, for later we shall just call it 'a new style', and there shall be much rejoicing". <_<

 

[brettprevans]

Next brew is going to be an invention. All Aussie malts (sod the sugar), Galaxy at 60 and POR at 15 to high 20s IBU.

-No hop aroma, just malt
-High 4 ABV, about 4.8 will be good
-All crystal malts to be centered around 50-75 Lovibond
-Light fruitiness remains from the Galaxy, no trace of anything from the yeast (US-05 or a lager yeast)

I'm drooling just thinking about this. It's not complete yet, I have to think about a few more things, but it will certainly be a beer to drink rather than judge.

sounds like a bloody great summer beer. it doesnt have to be fancy just taste great. its the craftbrewers version of VB/new etc etc. something to drink and enjoy an not have to critique every element of it

 

[jayse]

Morning Thirsty,
Just picked some bits I'd like to put my own opinion on here, I don't by any stretch mean any disrespect to your opinion in doing so.

who the hell says there has to be THE Australian style?? Why cant there be a few?

My view is theres currently possibly a spot for new world styles to be introduce into the aaba guidelines.
Just as the new zealand brewers guild have just introduced to their guidelines, maybe some consultation with them would be the next step for this to get it off the ground.

Fair enough a candidate will, or might even already be, emerge from the commercial examples - but why cant someone try to envisage what a beer that was "Australian" by character and ingredient might be? Think it up, brew it, tell people how great it is and if they brew it and agree -- maybe it becomes popular enough to deserve an official style designation one day.

Sure go ahead and give it your best shot, it will take years before I see it becoming regonized, 50 AHBs' might brew it within the next year and it will be simply seen as a fad. Untill it is seen as a serious style and being widely commercially brewed I can't see any member of the bjcp, aha or aaba doing anything but have a giggle at the thought of this.

You may get it introduced into a standalone comp such as anawbs, depending on what the style ends up being I see this whole new yet to be invented style as fizzing in the arse after a year.
Quite happy for you guys to try prove me wrong.

I'm for an Aussie wheat, light to med body and bitterness with Aussie or NZ hop character. Coopers or similar yeast.
That keeps the common features of the current reasonably unique aussie beers - and also the features of the beers that are actually popular with the majority of Australians - makes it a beer appropriate for the local climate - as well as using ingredients that are if not uniquely, certainly typically Australian.

A beer made like that would pretty much fit into this new world style I am talking about.

I actually think that we have a better chance of inventing something on spec.

I will with all respect disagree but it is going to take a lot of disagreements and discussion before we all find a happy medium we all agree on.

What QuantumBrewer posted here I think is well said and I personally agree with this line of thought.

I'll add my $0.02 while I have a spare minute (edit: okay... that took a while);

What makes an 'English Beer' English - does it have tea and scones in it?

What makes a 'German Beer' German - is it particularly productive?

I doubt that when Pilsners were being created people thought 'what would be particularly Bavarian about this?' - they were using a new technique (lagering), and that gave the beers a distinct character. English beers aren't low carbonated because the creamy head reminds them of fog. I find it odd to try to force the idea of a (new) 'Australian Beer Style' by randomly introducing 'Australian... things'.

Apart from the argument of 'why does Australia even need a style?' - a respectable style should come about naturally, and be identified as 'Australian' because that's where it originated - why should you not be considering a large proportion of the English ingredients? A style that comes about naturally in Australia will probably have English roots.

As for Australians being big beer drinkers, that's a bit of a stretch. Other countries are proud of their world-class beers, exported and respected globally. As Aussies we (as in, the general population) seem to be overly proud of the mainstream swill produced for local consumption, but you wouldn't put it out to play with the big boys. Sure, craft brewing is taking off in a big way, but it's still very much a minority, and ignored by most of the population. The term 'craft-brew' is actually known throughout America, and these beers are sought-after, not just stumbled upon.

Now I'm all for craft-brewing, but I think this is where you'll need to look if you're ever going to see something 'Australian'. Even then, any 'new' style will likely fit somewhere in between BJCP styles, so it will be 'a bit of English with American notes', or whatever. As homebrewers we can play around with new techniques - and I believe that this is where those techniques will be developed - but those techniques will need to be picked up by micros before they get any good recognition.

I'm not trying to (entirely) discourage you, but rather make you think about 'what exactly it is that you're trying to do.' Although you'll likely make something quite nice with an interesting range of ingredients (and that's a great achievement) I think if you want to make 'a new style' you'll need to start looking into turning the entire process on it's head, and producing a new technique that gives a beer a distinct quality. Think what decoctions did for German beers. That may or may not come about by random trial and error, but education (one of the main reasons many people frequent this forum) is a great place to start.

 

[King Brown]

I've thought about this before, to make something of Australian ingredients, thought about a wit, as australia produces a lot of wheat, and its light refreshing flavour would suit the hot aussie climate. Ferment with coopers yeast, loads of fruitiness would suit A wheat beer imo. Make it more bitter than a typical wit to reflect the aussie tastes, using POR (also quite a citrusy hop) Then add some wattle seeds or other bush spices.

On the subject of bush spices my old boss was a gourmet who reckoned wattle seed is excellent in coffee, perhaps a wattle stout would be very drinkable...

Id just like to experiment with ingredients that we have here to see what interesting beers could result

 

[KingPython]

Let's make the equivalent of saison- we have the hot weather use a wine yeat and modify it for use in beer or use Coppers yeast and modify that to get higher temp usage- use cane sugar to thin it out, pale malts, a higher IBU than a Belgian- perfect summer beer.

 

[floppinab]

I was thinking the same thing myself, TB.

Next brew is going to be an invention. All Aussie malts (sod the sugar), Galaxy at 60 and POR at 15 to high 20s IBU.

-No hop aroma, just malt
-High 4 ABV, about 4.8 will be good
-All crystal malts to be centered around 50-75 Lovibond
-Light fruitiness remains from the Galaxy, no trace of anything from the yeast (US-05 or a lager yeast)

I'm drooling just thinking about this. It's not complete yet, I have to think about a few more things, but it will certainly be a beer to drink rather than judge.

Damn close to what I mentioned in post #9 in this thread. I really put it together as an alternative to Aussie plain 'ol pub lager but and although I like the beer I've been disappointed in the reaction I've got from some of my mates. I may have overdone the galaxy a bit and that may be whats turning a few off. I would say if you head down this path keep at 2 additions tops and the IBU's relatively low.

 

[Josh]

Okay I've had a read of the last few pages and I have one point.

If we're trying to "invent" a new style that we can be proud of, I guess we don't need to be using solely Australian ingredients. We also don't necessarily need to follow craftbrewers in what they are doing. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that styles such as American Brown Ale were pushed by homebrewers. As the craftbrewers saw what styles were popular among the homebrewers they started making those commercially.

The idea might be just to find a hole in the beer tapestry and make it our own...

What about a dark wheat beer that is highly hopped as opposed to a wheat and yeast driven dunkelweizen?

 

[Bizier]

Many beers are also developed from necessity and invention. Why use lager yeast and lager extensively here, when it costs us near a billion times the amount in electricity?

My attempts at a sour beer for a definitive Aussie beer proved less than popular

 

[marlow_coates]

Josh, what your saying is something I have been thinking about for a while now, and just fits into this concept.

I know wheat beers are typically low IBU, so why not up the bitterness?
Haven't tried it yet, but can't see it being horrible.

Also, was thinking due to most of the country being hot most of the time, fermenting at higher temps could be seen as a 'necessity' (if we ignore all modern forms of refridgeration)

In summary,
:a wheat beer >50%
:high IBU,
:colour (no set limit?)(although I like the idea of a dark wheat, I don't reckon it looks as good as a light one)
:yeast - coopers yeast fermented low-mid 20's??, or any other yeast that will ferment reasonably well at higher temps

Have I just described a category of beer already in circulation?

 

[KingPython]

Many beers are also developed from necessity and invention. Why use lager yeast and lager extensively here, when it costs us near a billion times the amount in electricity?

My attempts at a sour beer for a definitive Aussie beer proved less than popular

That's my line of thinking as well. We're known for bland lagers so why not go for some high temperature brewing with weird phenols.

 

[Bizier]

That's my line of thinking as well. We're known for bland lagers so why not go for some high temperature brewing with weird phenols.

OK, I have it!

Cooper's kit yeast at 35 degrees, 50% dextrose. That sums up a large portion of what Australians are doing. No other country is doing that.

 

[KingPython]

Brilliant! I'll put down a batch now.

Cane sugar despite all the **** it gets is important I think. It has a played a part in Australia's history and brewing history. Hell in America it's valued over corn syrup in Coke and other food\drink. It's a valid ingredient (in moderation) in my book.

 

[flattop]

The thing is beer (and mead before it) has been around a hell of a long time, all the basic styles are already here, i'm sure that experimentation has been going on in many countries for a long time. What we don't have going against us is tradition and regulation, we mustn't conform to a Belgian or German style because that's where we brew but neither is there any point in re-inventing the wheel. Most of it has probably been tried before and failed (an therefore doesn't exist) or been successful and we are drinking it now.
The Germans had their purity law, the Belgians have the Abbey styles and Candi Sugar....

Really we pretty much have cane sugar and POR, will it give us a profile that will make a memorable beer?
I'm not sure that it will be easy to find a style significantly different from what is already out there.
A point in case, a wheat with high ibu is still a wheat.... not knocking the idea but we almost need a new "grain" to emit a new flavor profile.
I guess sugar cane could add to that but we almost need a "sunday lamb roast beer" or "bbq snags" flavor, or barramundi cooked in ashes....

We could brew a "Paul Hogans armpit" beer or Hugh Jackmans sideburns for those too young to remember Hoges....

 

[jayse]

I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that styles such as American Brown Ale were pushed by homebrewers. As the craftbrewers saw what styles were popular among the homebrewers they started making those commercially.

Really the whole modern microbrewing movement came about from homebrewers for the most part, even sierra nevada was once just a homebrewer in a shed, the way these beer styles came about is more at the heart of my arguement of styles naturally evolving out of known styles being pushed to there limits and incorporating local hop varieties to even the extreme.
These styles come to be so wide spread they are now considered real world beer styles.

But there isn't anything doctored about it, such as this thread is, were a bunch of brewers debated it out to try and invent a totally new style ending up what ever group shouts the loudest gets what they think to be accepted and engraved in stone, it just won't ever happen that way.
Its the beer becoming popular and drunk everywhere which is going to make it a style.

It was a natural process of beer evolution such as the case with how the new zealand brewers guild have recently come out and said there is now a need to add some extra style catergories in competions to fit these pilsners and pales that brewers are brewing with non traditional local hop varieties that don't fit the traditional mold.

I can see now this thread is not at all with much reality and to be honest some delusional ideas for simply ***** and giggles to hash it out and whoever shouts the loudest is gunna claim to invented a new style. :unsure:
I'll be interested to see were it goes for sure but I think my serious agrument to follow the steps of the new zealand brewers guild must be a different topic all together.

 

[jayse]

....

We could brew a "Paul Hogans armpit" beer or Hugh Jackmans sideburns for those too young to remember Hoges....

I'am glad there are at least a few people on the some wave length as myself.

Cheers
Jayse

 

[eamonnfoley]

I've thought about this before, to make something of Australian ingredients, thought about a wit, as australia produces a lot of wheat, and its light refreshing flavour would suit the hot aussie climate. Ferment with coopers yeast, loads of fruitiness would suit A wheat beer imo. Make it more bitter than a typical wit to reflect the aussie tastes, using POR (also quite a citrusy hop) Then add some wattle seeds or other bush spices.

On the subject of bush spices my old boss was a gourmet who reckoned wattle seed is excellent in coffee, perhaps a wattle stout would be very drinkable...

Id just like to experiment with ingredients that we have here to see what interesting beers could result

Barons Brewery use wattle seed in one of their beers - very popular, was brewed by Barons in a UK brewery for the UK Wetherspoons beer festival.

 

[flattop]

Golden ale (UK)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the United Kingdom, a Golden ale is a style of beer developed in the late 20th century by breweries to compete with the large light lager market.

A typical golden ale has an appearance similar to that of a Pilsener. Malt character is subdued and the hop profile ranges from spicy to citrus; common hop additions include Styrian Golding and Cascade. Alcohol is in the 4% to 5% range ABV.

Aussie brew
By Flattop
In Australia they got frustrated with Europeans getting the limelight with their stylistic brews so they designed a beer made with Kylie Minogues G string, Hoges shorts and added POR and sand from Gunamatta and a loose camel poo from NT to make sure that no one forgets where it came from.....

 

[Muggus]

I reckon you could have a number of different "Aussie-style" beers, using distinctly Aussie ingredients.

Obviously you've got all of those bush spices that Barons use in their beers...lemon myrtle, wattleseed...but they generally add them to other styles of beer...English brown/Belgian Wit. The real deciding factor here seems to be the yeast and malt structures of the beers themselves, which are based around different styles.
Aussie yeast seems to be a no brainer...Coopers? Does the job, and can be quite versitile.
Aussie grains/grist, seems easy enough with Aussie maltsters, but you could get more inventive than that. The use of cane sugar is quite original (if not frowned upon) in the brewing world. Pair that with wheat, rice, and other grains you wind up with something a bit different all together.
You could almost make an Aussie-style Saison, using Coopers yeast for complex esters, bush spices, and a malt bill with cane sugar and a few different Australian-grown grains, and you wind up with something that wouldn't taste anything like a Belgian counterpart. Hell, age it in Bundy Rum casks and BAM, totally Aussie.

 

[flattop]

Hmm when i read Aussie style Saison i almost spat it.... isn't that what we are trying to avoid? Matching our style to another then it's not an Aussie Hoges, its a "saison" but then go on to read aged in Bundi casks and all of a sudden there is a style developing...
Has anyone milled a uniquely Aussie seed and made it a decent percentage of the grain bill?
Imagine 50% wattle seed, 50% pils with cane sugar to compensate for any loss of of fermentable sugars in the wattle top it off with POR...

Of course there is the issue of getting 3k of wattle seed....

 

[chappo1970]

I'am glad there are at least a few people on the some wave length as myself.

Cheers
Jayse

Ahh! But Jayse this topic is a wonderful talking point and debate, no?

I agree that style will evolve with the popularity of a beer and it's twist or stretch on a traditional style. I guess by the intelligent debate thus far on this thread that there is some interest in the topic. I still believe it can happen even if only one person is inspired and goes on to fame and fortune I would be happy. I'll be dead in 30 years so I probably won't get to see it happen anyway but I like the thought of it becoming real none the less. :icon_cheers:

Cheers

Chappo

 

[Muggus]

Has anyone milled a uniquely Aussie seed and made it a decent percentage of the grain bill?
Imagine 50% wattle seed, 50% pils with cane sugar to compensate for any loss of of fermentable sugars in the wattle top it off with POR...

Of course there is the issue of getting 3k of wattle seed....

I'm not sure wattle seed would be used as a fermentable, more like a spice. The flavour is pretty strong from what i remember.

Actually on that note, are there any unique Australian grains out there?

 

[pdilley]

Australia has wild peach, native pepper and native flowers that produce all sorts of jams for anyone who has their head out of their rear you can find tons of native foods.

Australia has bloody hot summers and in some areas bloody cold winters. There is at least 2 beer styles crying out right there which would need to brew out in counter-seasons. I'd like to see something that incorporates a uniquely Australian ingredient/adjunct in at least one recipe. We can get 3 recipes if we go low gravity, medium gravity, high gravity and work it out from there.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[chappo1970]

Pete tell more about these flowers please?

Chappo

 

[geoffi]

OK, I have it!

Cooper's kit yeast at 35 degrees, 50% dextrose. That sums up a large portion of what Australians are doing. No other country is doing that.

Don't forget the sweat filtered through a blue singlet. That's vital to the flavour profile.

 

[pdilley]

Pete tell more about these flowers please?

Chappo

Moreso fruit after the flowers but we have in addition to whats been mentioned, wild lime, native currants, muntries, passionberries, quandongs, sandpaper figs, mountain pepper, lemon myrtle, native raspberry, native giner, midyim, cedar bay cherry, candle nuts, burdekin plums, bunya nuts, bungwall fern, riberries, um.. and more!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[flattop]

I think we need ingredients that are very readily available and close to hand...