The New Chinese Hop Bulk Buy 2009/2010

[townsville]

This is the new thread for the buying of Chinese Hops that will start in January. It has been started to avoid clutter and solely concentrate on the ordering, and informing of the Craftbrewer in buying these hops.

AS SUCH, I HAVE ASKED THE MODERATORS TO DELETE POSTS THAT DONT DIRRECTLY ADDRESS THIS - including mine.

Any other comments should be addressed on other threads

TERMS AND CONDITIONS NEXT. -

Dane: I've cleaned up this thread.

Keep this stuff on topic. If you have a problem email the original poster. Read our new Bulk Buy guidelines.

Off topic post gets trashed.

Graham you were probably the worst offender in this whole thread - you leave a lot to be desired when organsing Bulk Buys like this. Everyone just use some common sense.

If this turns into a train wreck it will be closed.

 

[townsville]

THE GREAT CHINESE HOP BUY 2009 - Second Chance Offer


This documents outlines the Terms and Conditions for joining in The Great Chinese Hop Buy 2009 - Second Chance Offer.


BUYER BEWARE -

China is the third largest producers of hops in the world, BUT as these hops are new, reports are still coming in on the quality. Initial inspections and smells indicate the hops are fine. Brewers are brewing with these hops and again early reports are these hops are more than fine. To see actual feedback go to this link

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=40674
and
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=39864

While I myself am confident these hops are up there with any imported hops arround the world, taste is a personal think, and I encourage buyers to read feedback forums.


THERE IS NO MONEY BACK GUARANTEE - NOR REFUND FOR NON-DELIVERY

This is a total non for profit buy, done by craftbrewers for free. The company WILL offer a guarantee on quality for large individual orders, eg micro-brewery size.

The company is solid, delivers a quality product, and follows thru on all aspects of the shipment. AS noted, the price is extremely cheap, due mainly to hops being a highly labour intensive crop, and the very low of labour in China. Many foreign "beer based" companies are investing in Chinese hop production. The company is good in terms of packaging (O2 barrier proof), O2 purging, and vacumn packing. The analysis of a typical hop also is indepth for Chinese standards eg

Product
SAAZ aroma hop pellets (T-90)

Specification
Aroma hop
(SA-1)
Incomplete pellets are less than 4%. Dissolved time is less than 10 seconds.
Humidity content: 7.0%-9.0% a acids: 2.0%-4.0% -Acids: 2.0%-4.0%

Technology Index
T-90 Hop pellet

Package
20KG /aluminum foil bag (vacuum)
Shipment
15 days within confirmations of payment


The hops you will find are more finely crushed than normal hops your used to. This is to ensure they disolve extremely quickly into the boil. and you get the flavour and aroma quickly. In any order there therefore be a little powder, and that should be used in your first beers. BUT then again, they are sooo cheap, you can also consider that "Natual loss" as one should buy fresh hops each year.



Importation of the hops meet with utterly no problems. They meet international standards in every aspect of production, processing and packaging.


again if you go ahead its

PAYMENT UP FRONT
NO REFUND NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS
BUYER BEWARE


If you wish to talk

Graham L Sanders
grahamlsanders atgoogledotcom
Skype "craftbrewer"

 

[townsville]

THE GREAT CHINESE HOP BUY 2009

HOPS THAT ARE AVAILABLE

The hop Company provides a good range of hop products including oils. However we are restricting this order to T90 hop pellets.

T90 hops pellets are the common pellets we buy as brewers. They are simply cut up and pressurised into pellets. They vacumn packed into O2 barrier bags for shipping.

Typical anaylsis

Technology Index

T-90 Hop pellet
Incomplete pellets are less than 4%. Dissolved time is less than 10 seconds.
Humidity content: 7.0%-9.0%

As stated, the hops are powdered finner than a lot of other hop pellets. That allowes for maximum extraction of flavours and bitterness by disolving quickly


We can only order 10 kg bags, and will affect how you order (see Ordering).


TYPES OF HOPS

Here are the five types of hops you can order. The production date is : October 16, 2009
Hops are new harvest 2009 year from the premium Growing Region - Xinjiang Proverence

________________________________________________________________
Variety &Type

Product
SAAZ aroma hop pellets(SA-1) (T-90)
Chinese Saaz (SA-1) comes from Female Saaz and Male Tettnang.
The taste is the same as any premium SE Asian Beer.

Specification
a acids: 4.3%% -Acids: 2.0%-4.0%

_________________________________________________________________


_________________________________________________________________
Product
CLUSTER bitter hop pellets(Qingdao Dahua) (T-90)
Good all round workhorse hop, XXXX flavour hop

Specification
a-Acids 6.6% -Acids>3.5%

_______________________________________________________________



________________________________________________________________
Product
MARCO POLO (COLUMBUS) hop pellets (T-90)
Typical APA flavours from USA beers

Specification
a-Acids>12% -Acids>3.0%


________________________________________________________________



________________________________________________________________
Product
CASCADE aroma hop pellets (T-90)
Not as strong as USA type, more rounded citris flavours.

Specification
a-Acids 5.8% B-Acids 4.0-6.0 %


________________________________________________________________


________________________________________________________________
Product
Nugget bittering hop pellet (T-90)
Typical nugget flavours

Specifications
a-Acids>12% -Acids>3.0%
________________________________________________________________


Graham L Sanders
grahamlsanders atgoogledotcom
Skype "craftbrewer"

 

[townsville]

THE GREAT CHINESE HOP BUY 2009

ORDERING

Preamble - I will keep as much information as a person can open and available. Everyone deserves to be kept as fully informed as possible. That said, I may with-hold minor information if third parties try to stop this deal. Equally I may also with-hold certain names of people in the deal due to personal sensitivity.

NOTE - If I am asked certain sensitive question that fit this category - you will get "I will neither confirm or deney what you are asking" response.

PROGRESS - All Progess, ordering, questions and other information will be found at

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/

Look under Bulk Buys
HOW TO

Orders are 1 kg lots.


I will simply ask for orders, First in best dressed. Most if not all should be filled. Only at the very end, say a week or so into the order, or orders slowing, I may regard some culling. I will be looking at filling all orders. However the base rule applies from now on, Due to the turmoil of the previos thread.

It will be simple. The earlier payers who contact me, and pay their bill, will be higher on my ordering form.

I wont be publishing any list who has paid, or how much. From the last order, many people dont want it known what they ordered and how much. So its simple, \

1. I will ask you to e-mail me to order.
2. You e-mail
3. I send a bank account details.
4. you deposit the money.
5. I will re-email confirming the payment.

Simple as. plus it protects certains peoples privacy.

grahamlsanders at google dot com is my contact.

I will ask you when ready to send the following details

Name:
Name for list (Handle):
Order:
Cost:
Return Email:
Phone number:


You will then receive details on how and where to pay (it will be a Commonwealth Bank account). Payment must be made (or arrangements notified) in one week. Failure to do so will see your name withdrawn, and the offer passed onto the next person on the list.

TIME TO ORDER

January 2010.

Once that is done its a matter of waiting. Shipping is 21 days, porbably another 14 days to get to the ship, 7 days out of customs. Expect the order to take one month.

all questions should be posted on the forum (so to keep this totally open and public), as well as updates as to what is happening to the hops

Graham L Sanders
grahamlsanders atgoogledotcom
Skype "craftbrewer"

 

[townsville]

THE GREAT CHINESE HOP BUY 2009

Costing

This exercise was never meant to make money. So the costings given are as close to cost as possible. While I have made every effort to find every cost, no doubt unexpected costs may come up. Because of this I have been conservative with the costing, giving a little buffering in case these costs come up.

If we are short on our costings, we will advise what extra needs to be paid. That will have to be paid before you receive the hops. All progress will be noted including billing. If we have excess, some will go to the packers as compensation (you try to weigh, sort, pack and mail 200kg of hops.), but any excess will be returned to you in your delivery.

The Costs are

TO BUY
SAAZ/CLUSTER-$15.00 a kg
CASCADE-$16.00 a kg
MARCO POLO (COLUMBUS)/NUGGET-$18.00 a kg


Distribution.

Hops will be landed in Brisbane.

When they arrive, Hops will be bulk packed and then on forwarded to "Distribution centres" in major capitol cites, or regional centres. you will be asked to either then pick up the hops, OR send a pre-paid, fully addressed satchel from Aus-Post. This poor ******* will have to pack all these hops so we are making his work load as trouble free as possible. The idea is a simple "scoop - seal in freezer bag - pack in envelope - drop off at post box when he is passing"

The hops WONT be weighed accurately to the nearest gram. Instead a scoop will be calibrated so the job will be easy for him to race thru the distribution. A scoop will be close to 1 kg, but may go a little over or under. It wont be by much, and considering the price, I think any would agree we want an ultra simple method. Remember the price.

REMEMBER - IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ORGANISE THE RIGHT PRE-PAID SATCHEL FOR DISTRIBUTION IF YOU DONT PICK UP.

If the satchel is too small for the order, its at the discression of the distributor to cut the amount of hops to fit the satchel. Equally if your order is large, contact myself to arrange how we will get the hops to you. At the end of the day YOU TELL US AND PAY FOR THE POSTAGE. The method is solely yours to choose. A cheap cardboard envelope, overnight whatever.



Its seems the plastic express satchel of 3 kg for instance may hold 3 kg of hops at a cost of $10.00 anywhere in Australia. (do Note) Australia Post dont like these going overweight. We will UNDERFILL these (say 950kg orders) to ensure they come in uder their weight.

Once mailed we dont hold any responsibility what happens with Aus -post.


Graham L Sanders
grahamlsanders atgoogledotcom
Skype "craftbrewer"

 

[townsville]

THE GREAT HOP BUY 2009

Misc

Hopefully all will go well, BUT equally we may have the odd hickup. Either way I will be upfront with what goes on. People are already helping, and I may call on you to help out in the future. If you can please help when asked.

As any helper is doing this for the love of beer, no-one is to contact any helper if their name gets out.

ALL PERSONAL CONTACT WILL BE THRU ME.

All general questions should be thru the forum, BUT if you want to abuse, rant, thank, whatever - people behind the scene, pick on me (LEAVE ALONE THE HELPERS).And yes, I will make the odd mistake.

Also understand that we are all doing this off our own backs. I may not respond straight away, I may be swamped with e-mails, and miss you, I may forget things. A friendly reminder is all I need if that is the case.I may give short answers too depending how things goes.

Basically just be understanding what is being undertaken.

My take in general from the beers I have made, and all the feedback is generally

1. hops are more powdery than what you normally expect. They crush them finner (their aim is to release the flavours and aroma quicker)
2. Flavours and aroma are definitely there, BUT more subdued. This may be due to the finner crush allowing these to be blown away quicker in the boil, may be due to the processing.
3. Bitterness seems clean and ok. No general complaints.
4. Hops have the characteristsic of their namesakes, ie Chinese Cascade is Cascade, BUT they have their own local variant on the flavours.

To me as a brewer, they do require twigging in the receipe. Generally upping the flavour and aroma amounts by 1/2 seems to compensate well, and adding later in the process to get flavours and aroma is the go, as they release these on contact with the boil.

Neverthe less, The Chinese are very good. I have passed on ALL feedback, good and bad to the Producer. They have in turn passed it to their technical people to improve next years crop.

Plus they have sent me hop samples from the other farms for comparison. This order is from a totally different hop growing area (their premium growing area), and is grown and processed differently from the first order.

This order bears no resembance in a lot of ways to the previous order. Its totally a different region and farming, drying and processing practice.

So I look forward to the sample and the second round of feedback

Graham L Sanders
grahamlsanders at google dot com

 

[townsville]

First step

Shortly I will be asking for people in major cities to stand up as Distribution centres. The role is simple. You will receive a bulk order for your state. The majority of the order should be able to be picked up at your place, with a few having to be mailed out. Those I suggest you arrange again a post package as last time, BUT really its your choice. A few extra people willing to help here will definitely have the job kncked over in an hour.

You will have to go public, you will have to give out your address.

BribieG some might think is the Brisbane Contact. NO HE AINT. So we will also need a Brisbane Contact. They will have one extra role, that is picking the hops at Eagle Farm, doing a quick BULK repack and remailing out the bulk State orders.

Please consider this over the next days. It can be rewarding, fun, and also a headache too.

I will ask for names by Friday and over the weekend. Once I bed this down, the ordering will start

Graham L Sanders
Skype "Craftbrewer"
grahamlsanders at google dot com

 

[Peteoz77]

I have to say that I was mildly interested in the original hop purchase, but didn't get on board. One of my mates did, and he passed about 200gms of each hop on to me to test. I have not brewed with them, but may do so in the future. I was VERY much unimpressed with the lack of hop aroma in these nuggets. However, If GLS states that adding 50% more hops to the flavour and aroma steps will suffice, who am I to argue?

So, I was keen to get in on the second purchase, and put my name in. However, I was witnessing GLS's rantings in another forum, where he stated that he has cracks for all of the brewing programs, and never pays. He also stated that he passes these cracks, and the software on to anyone who asks for them. I have never been one to follow all of the rules myself, but I am QUITE careful about talking about it, especially in an online forum. Good luck to GLS is anyone comes looking for software... or anything else. So, I decided to pull my name out of the purchase. It has somehow shown back up again, but I wish to state very clearly that I am not purchasing ANY hops from him. He can do business with anyone he likes, and the other parties are fine as well, as long as they know what sort of a "businessman" they are dealing with.

Now, asking for his thread to remain perfectly clean and without any sign of contempt or "truth telling" from unsatisfied parties.. well that's beyond a joke. Mate, if you post here, expect controversy, and questions. Either deal with it, or don't post here. The moderators are NOT here to look after you. They are here to have a nice, open discussion about all forms of brewing, not just what you wish to talk about.

 

[townsville]

UPDATES

this is to start the Great Chinese Hop buy 2009/2010 second round.

The Terms and Conditions are pretty clear.

While the previous Chinese Hop Buy was successful, it can only be used as a guide. A number of changes, both off shore and with-in Australia means in a lot of ways, this is a COMPLETELY new exercise.

HOPS
I took the concerns on the quality of the hops in the first buy back to China. They have passed them on to their technical people to improve the quality.

as such we have been offered hops from a completely different growing region, where the quality is susposed to be TOP SHELF. The way they grow them , process them, is totally different from the previous order. For instance, this region is where the quality brewers from arround the world source their hops, and have their own inspectors in place to ensure quality. Equally the drying and processing plants are the latest plants available, unlike the first order.

So while the first buy can be seen as a guide, this buy is really totally new and different, and I look forward to seeing the quality of these Hops. Its a learning exercise for everyone.

VARITIES

One big change in the order. The Saaz hops from this region a TRUE PURE EUROPEAN SAAZ, like the bohemian originals. The Saaz is not the SA1 varatiety, the crossed version.

I again look forward to seeing the performance of this hop.

Graham Sanders
Craftbrewer
Grahamlsanders at beagle dot com
Skype : "Craftbrewer"

 

[townsville]

UPDATES

To restate

THERE IS NO LIST.

None will ever a list be published, or made available. The buy is TOTALLY PRIVATE in regards to this forum. This has come about due to a heap of problems with going public with a list. As such I have taken tighter controls on this buy to ensure mistakes are at a minimum. I have done many MANY hop bulk buys, and this was the first that got out of control, - that wont happen again. I have taken a tighter moderator control of the buy to ensure it runs smoothly.

People wanting to buy will be asked to e-mail me next week with their order, once confirmed, I will contact them back again to pay, and again confirm the payment made. (NO PUBLIC CONFIRMATION WILL OCCUR ON THIS FORUM).

You will be asked to provide

Name:
Name for list (Handle):
State for Delivery:
Order:
Cost:
Return Email:
Phone number:

First I have to set up Distribution Centres

Graham L Sanders
grahamlsanders at google dot com
Skype "Craftbrewer"

 

[townsville]

ASKING FOR PEOPLE TO HELP

For this to work I have gone back to my tried and true system I have used over the years, that is a Distribution Centre.

The principle is simple. In major centres some-one acts as distributor. They get mailed their states bulk order, and allow people to come round to pick it up. There is no need for repacks if you wish, people can just turn up with whatever and scoop out their hops. In a few cases there will a mailout of those who dont turn up, BUT generally that will be in the minority, and easily handled by yourself in a couple of hours.

I AM AFTER PEOPLE TO ACT AS DISTRIBUTION CENTRES

Idealy you should be relatively central, (say in a Capitol City), and be available say on one day over a weekend for the hops to be picked up. Your name WILL NOT be made public on this forum, but your address naturally will have to be given out to those who need to pick up.

The Brisbane distribution centre will have an added responibility, they will have to pick up the hops from Eagle farm, do a bulk repack and mail out again to the other states. Should only take a couple of hours.

Distribution members will also be on the committee to discuss the Bulk Buy privately.

I am after
1 - some-one with free time to be involved
2 - Some-one who can keep all information discussed totally confidential
3 - some-one easygoing as well for when any hiccups are involved
4 - some-one who enjoys helping other fellow craftbrewers get the best out of their hobby
5 - someone who wants to make a difference

Without this distribution Centre network, the Bulk Buy wont go ahead, so its up to you.

Please Contact me if you have any questions or want to be involved.

Graham L Sanders
grahamlsanders at gmail dot com
Skype "Craftbrewer"

 

[townsville]

UPDATE

Silly me, I dont know my own e-mail address. Great way to run a Bulk Buy

PLEASE NOTE THIS IS MY E-MAIL ADDRESS

grahamlsanders at gmail dot com

Please contact me via this

Graham Sanders
Skype "Craftbrewer"

 

[cooperplace]

UPDATE

Silly me, I dont know my own e-mail address. Great way to run a Bulk Buy

PLEASE NOTE THIS IS MY E-MAIL ADDRESS

grahamlsanders at gmail dot com

Please contact me via this

Graham Sanders
Skype "Craftbrewer"

Good to see that common sense has prevailed and that this is going ahead.

Graham, are the prices as before?

 

[Metal_Gman]

Townsville,

I have several questions

1. This is a total non for profit buy, done by "craftbrewers" for free. The company WILL offer a guarantee on quality for large individual orders, eg micro-brewery size.

When you refer to craftbrewers, who are you referring to?

2. When you say they will offer a guarantee on quality for large orders, what kind of guarantee?

3. Have you researched the legalities of this bulk buy? You state "Non profit" yet do you have an ABN that has non-profit endorsement from the ATO? * http://ato.gov.au/nonprofit/content.asp?do...mp;st=&cy=1 *

4. Do you also realise whether you are non-profit or not, importing and distributing a quantity of goods that large could constitute operation of a business, and as such you be liable for compulsory GST registration and if you fail to register a $2200 fine.
And as such, being potentially liable to register for GST would automatically place you under the Trade practices act law.

I don't intend to poke holes in your bulk buy, I would not mind grabbing a very cheap kg of hops to try. But you should be mighty mighty careful about potential tax evasion. I would suggest you look at this and obtain a private binding ruling from the ATO before you commence trade; This would LEGALLY absolve you of any tax requirements SHOULD the ato come back and say "No you are not operating a business, you do not have to register for GST or an ABN. However it may also forewarn you that you ARE liable to pay tax on imports/distributions....... fair warning my friend.

http://www.ato.gov.au/atp/content.asp?doc=/content/19463.htm

 

[townsville]

Good to see that common sense has prevailed and that this is going ahead.

Graham, are the prices as before?

G'Day All

More than happy to cover all questions for this particular Bulk Buy only. I wont stray outside those strict guidelines. Yes I have covered all angles here, with all Governemnt Departments (used to work in Taxation actually). They are happy, and I am more than happy with this buy going ahead. Thats for your concern, BUT everything is above board and well accounted for.

As for prices yes they remain the same.

The Costs are

TO BUY
SAAZ/CLUSTER-$15.00 a kg
CASCADE-$16.00 a kg
MARCO POLO (COLUMBUS)/NUGGET-$18.00 a kg

Graham L Sanders
Skype "Craftbrewer"
grahamlsanders at gmail dot com

 

[Metal_Gman]

G'Day All

More than happy to cover all questions for this particular Bulk Buy only. I wont stray outside those strict guidelines. Yes I have covered all angles here, with all Governemnt Departments (used to work in Taxation actually). They are happy, and I am more than happy with this buy going ahead. Thats for your concern, BUT everything is above board and well accounted for.

As for prices yes they remain the same.

The Costs are

TO BUY
SAAZ/CLUSTER-$15.00 a kg
CASCADE-$16.00 a kg
MARCO POLO (COLUMBUS)/NUGGET-$18.00 a kg

Graham L Sanders
Skype "Craftbrewer"
grahamlsanders at gmail dot com

Okay thanks but you still haven't answered my questions about who is "Craftbrewers"?

And, define "Microbrewer"/larger orders?

 

[townsville]

Okay thanks but you still haven't answered my questions about who is "Craftbrewers"?

And, define "Microbrewer"/larger orders?

I shouldn't have to do this mind you, as its going outside the scope of the buy BUY There is a big difference between Craftbrewers and Homebrewers.

Homebrewers - people who brew at home. Be it Kit and Kilo, in a bath tub, out in the open. They basically brew at home and dont care that much about the result.

Craftbrewers - people who treat the art of brewing as a craft. They take care in the production, the receipe, the equipment, the ingredients, the procedures.



As for Large orders bit, well our Bulk Buy order is extremely small compared to microbrewery orders. We are dealing with only a couple 100 kg's. The hop company deals with TONS when it comes to microbrewery orders. Thats what they prefer.

They just like me and are prepared to do this small order just for me. Thats why it fits nicely in the Bulk Buy section. It ticks all the boxes.

Graham L Sanders
Skype "Craftbrewer"
grahamlsanders at gmail dot com

 

[bonj]

I think it is related to the buy, and I think what Metal_Gman might be aluding to, is that you should ensure that you are differentiating yourself with the business entity of Craftbrewer, since any confusion there could be seen as "passing off", and the actual Craftbrewer business would have an action against you. It is irrelevant who or what was using that name first. Craftbrewer is a registered business and therefore has the right to use that name without confusion. The whole Ugg boot thing is a perfect example... That was a generic unregistered popular name for that style boot, but an American company registered it as a trademark in the USA and Australia, and successfully stopped any Australian business from using it... even though the Australian businesses were using the name before the trademark was registered. It was their own silly fault for not protecting their name in the first place.

I am not a lawyer, (but I play one on TV (no, not really)) but I would advise against using the name Craftbrewer for any beer related business, whether it be for profit or not. I have already seen posters clarifying which Craftbrewer they mean after they type it, which is enough for me to say that a passing off action against you could be successful.

May all your Chinese hops have lovely flavour and aroma...

 

[Steve]

Graham, Im interesting in the new "geniune european saaz hops". Please can you show me something that proves this before I throw my first kilo of saaz hops in the compost and buy a 2nd kilo?

Cheers
Steve

 

[townsville]

Graham, Im interesting in the new "geniune european saaz hops". Please can you show me something that proves this before I throw my first kilo of saaz hops in the compost and buy a 2nd kilo?

Only their word, after I was asked to make sure what was said was correct

to cut and paste

"[31/12/2009 11:56:22 AM] Carol Wang: New sample SAAZ is pure/true SAAZ imported from Czech by Japanese techinician in China, but there is still difference between SAAZ which are planting different places/countries, because there is no exactly same climate and relative conditions in the world, so SAAZ you will get is the true SAAZ."

I will know more when I get my sample.

Graham L Sanders
Craftbrewer
Skype "Craftbrewer"
grahamlsanders at gmail dot com