That ' Home Brew' Taste.

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Dave70

Le roi est mort..
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You know the one I mean?
You stand there dispensing your latest creation to mates and tell them to give an honest,critical opinion ( like they need to be told )
"Yeah its good mate, but it still tastes a little.. home brewish" - them you punch him in the gut's...
But realy, which part of the process is responsable for it and how do you get rid of it?
It's still early day's for me and things are improving, but if theres one thing I'm determined to do it's rid my beers of that singnature aftertaste.

cheers
 
You say it's early days, how are you brewing? Kit n Kilo? Kits n bits? Extract?

Personally i find the kit and kilo bres definitely have a 'home brew' taste. Since moving to full extract brews (and specialty grains), this flavour has definitely been very much reduced.

Also what do your mates normally drink? If the home brewed offering is significantly different (i.e. a bavarian wit) and they swear by jugs of Tooheys New, then unfortunately there is no hope and you need new friends!! :party:

Seriously thougfh i have found those with limited beer palates tend to always struggle with variety of flavours from home brew.
 
You hide it under copious amounts of late hops!!
The difficulty is that the kinds of beer that most of our 'uninitiated' mates are used to drinking are very light in colour and flavour with very little hopping. When you make this kind of beer yourself, any subtle differences from the 'norm' are very noticeable, ie, that homebrew taste. I reckon the first things to do to reduce it are;
- Select a good neutral brewing yeast (eg, US-05) in favour of the one that comes with the kit and control the ferment temperature to the low end of the range, like below 20C (I'm talking ales here, lagers are another story).
- Minimise use of cane sugar. Opt for dried or liquid malt extract. Always use fresh ingredients.
- Add some specialty grains or late hops.

I think that 'homebrew taste' is generally attributed to inferior yeasts supplied with kits, high ferment temperatures and excessive use of cane sugar.
 
I found that I still couldnt really get rid of the "homebrew taste" with extract and grains, it still had a slight "twang", not as bad as kits... But IMO, the easiest way is to go AG, then you can make beers in the same ballpark as really good commercial beers...
 
you'd have to be more specific about which "homebrew" taste your meaning.

- theres a 'kit twang' that comes from old stock of tins of goo. easily fixed by using fresh tins of goo.
- theres diacetyl or green apples taste which the main culprit is from brewing at too high a temp (thanks crappy Coopers instructions for ruining generations of homebrewers). fixed by brewing at better temps for the specific yeast.
- then there just poorly made beer. solution - make better beer.
- then you'll get knobs who decide that any sort of beer with flavour tastes like homebrew. idiots. just punch them in the guts! seriously if this is the case then just give them a hardcore commercial belgium or saison and show them that realy beer has flavour and isnt served at 2C with no taste (aka megaswill)


EDIT: I recon the 'homebrew' taste is an overrated phenomenon. Ive onyl ever had 2 beers that tasted like homebrew (excl the crap I brewed 10 years ago - pure coopers goo). other than that most of my K&K and extract beers have got great reviews and never a mention of twang.

really good commercial beers...
There's such a thing?! :eek: :p
 
There's such a thing?! :eek: :p

lowl, I wasnt meaning Fosters or Lion gayness, but there are certainly some decent commercial Belgian beers..

I guess Craft beers and Micros dont count as "commercial"?
 
Im very selective who I offer a home brew... something I got off my father! The kit twang as already being mentioned. As a all grainer there is still a certain taste in my beer, a few people say it tastes like that Little Creatures, even though it doesnt. It's a taste I like. Others don't.

It's also how it's presented, and what style of beer you serve.
 
lowl, I wasnt meaning Fosters or Lion gayness, but there are certainly some decent commercial Belgian beers..

I guess Craft beers and Micros dont count as "commercial"?
I was kidding man i knew what you meant. i was pulling you beer tap (leg)
 
Unfortunately I'm blessed with predominantly megaswilling friends who, as mentioned above, consider anything with malt character or late hops to have a weird flavour. Quite disheartening, especially considering my ever increasing taste for hops. :icon_drool2:

I do brew beer that I enjoy, and always will, but it would be nice to be able to share some with mates and have them appreciate your efforts.

Ah well, more for me I suppose. :icon_cheers:
 
You say it's early days, how are you brewing? Kit n Kilo? Kits n bits? Extract?

Personally i find the kit and kilo bres definitely have a 'home brew' taste. Since moving to full extract brews (and specialty grains), this flavour has definitely been very much reduced.

Also what do your mates normally drink? If the home brewed offering is significantly different (i.e. a bavarian wit) and they swear by jugs of Tooheys New, then unfortunately there is no hope and you need new friends!! :party:

Seriously thougfh i have found those with limited beer palates tend to always struggle with variety of flavours from home brew.

Ive been getting my kits from Country Brewer, so at this stage I basicaly say ' I want to make that one' and he pushes a bunch of ingredients across the counter.
*Tin of gooey brown stuff.
*crystal
*fuggles...and so on.
Not very high tech, but not quite Big W either.

It,s not bad by any stretch,but theres allways room for improvement.

Yep,Im all about execelence me....
 
I have read somewhere (i know its hearsay not experience, though I think it was John Palmer) the extract/kit twang becomes more obvious as it ages on the shelf - prior to becoming your precious nectar. The obvious soultion is to find a home brew shop that has a good turnover and fresh ingredients-like anything I guess. I think liquid extract is more likely, IMO, to give more twang for your buck. I tried my first Morgan's kit a little while back and it has no obvious twangage in my final product. I used it for a LCPA attempt and was extremely happy with it. Prior to that I was mainly using Coopers kits and had varying success.
 
Wyatt, i think you're correct. The longer the extract sits in a tin, the darker it becomes. There is some reaction occuring with an enzyme/protien/dovy-wacker that starts with M***** (it's friday folks, i attend work but my brain is elsewhere). This reaction increases over time, hence the recommendation is to get the freshest malt extract you can get.

Dave70, is sounds like you're on the right track with tins of goo and extra goodies, what types of beers are you brewing and sharing with your mates?
 
Thanks Adam, please select your prize for the second shelf, or you can risk it all and play on in the next round ;)

Another point quickly copied from John Palmer:

The freshness of the extract is important, particularly for the syrup. Beer brewed with extract syrup more than a year old will often have a blunt, stale, even soapy flavor to it. This is caused by the oxidation of the fatty acid compounds in the malt. Dry malt extract has a better shelf life than the liquid because the extra de-hydration slows the pertinent chemical reactions.
 
I've used Morgans Kits and haven't had that 'kit twang', but because they are more heavy in flavour than the equivalent Coopers kits, I have made a couple of horrendous mistakes by trying to beef them up with specialty grains and extra hops and ended up with excessively dark, muddy and eye-poppingly bitter beers. Some of their tins like Royal Oak Amber and Australian Draught are best left alone in the hopping and dark malt department - they can stand on their own two feet.

If using a kit now, I tend to go for the lightest possible - for example a Morgans Canadian or a good old Coopers Lager original series. This gives me far more leeway to add subtle amounts of hops, steeping grains etc. And I always chuck the kit yeast or use it for ginger beer. I find that Nottingham does a great job and settles out well, and recultures well. Also the temperature is important, I try to keep below 20 degrees which is hard in SEQ at the moment.

//beginning of rant <_<
IMHO (dons flameproof suit) another source of 'twang' is excessive use of light dried malt extract. Lets face it, LDME wasn't invented for the benefit of us home brewers. Whilst nowadays of course, a fair amount is used by us, the majority goes into things like Milo bars, Sustagen gold, Maltesers, Sarah Lee cakes, Mars Bars etc etc.

It's a lot cheaper than buying kilo or kilo and a half tins of liquid malt extract from Coopers or Morgans, but I'm becoming increasingly iffy about LDME. The best received and cleanest K&K I ever made was brew number one in June that was a Morgans Queensland Pilsener and a can of Morgans light malt liquid and a Saaz teabag. And it was cool at the time, fermented out at around 16* And it cost nearly $30 which I consider rude for a K&K

Recently I made two brews a few weeks apart, both of them with a coopers lager tin, same hops, same yeast (Notto). In the first one I used heaps of LDME, in the second one I did a partial mash with just an English (Bairds) pale malt and added dreaded cane sugar instead of the LDME and it turned out a really nice beer with no 'cidery' twang, which I had feared.

In comparison the LDME brew is muddy, dark - a Coopers Lager should not turn out the colour of an English Burton bitter. (I think the 'L' in LDME varies from batch to batch)
The use of the sugar suited the particular style of the beer but I wouldn't even contemplate it with dark mild or an English bitter etc as it would definitely thin out the beer and stand out like the dog's proverbials.

// end of anti LDME rant. ;)

However at the end of the day as Reviled said the way to completely dispense with home brew twang and set yourself freeeee is to go AG, as I am currently doing.
 
// end of anti LDME rant. ;)

I'll come into bat for the LDME. I think it is OK to 'top up' your recipe, as you would with sugar in a K+K. But you don't use it as the lynch pin of your recipe, because it will just taste like LDME. You can't make a malt focused beer without going at least partial or AG. It is also entirely unsuitable for beers lighter than a gold/amber - it is just too dark.

What temperature are you fermenting at Dave? What is your process with the yeast? What yeast are you using?
I think that those kits should be able to make a decent beer if you manage the process well.
 
I'll come into bat for the LDME. I think it is OK to 'top up' your recipe, as you would with sugar in a K+K. But you don't use it as the lynch pin of your recipe, because it will just taste like LDME. You can't make a malt focused beer without going at least partial or AG. It is also entirely unsuitable for beers lighter than a gold/amber - it is just too dark.

What temperature are you fermenting at Dave? What is your process with the yeast? What yeast are you using?
I think that those kits should be able to make a decent beer if you manage the process well.

+1, I was referring to 'excessive' use of LDME, like you say trying to make it the lynchpin, for example trying to do an all malt brew and putting a tin plus a kilo and a half of LDME in the mix as I have done in the past. Personally when doing Kits n bits, my more drinkable and reliable brews have been along the lines of:

Tin of something light such as Queenland Bitter or Coopers Lager
500g LDME
750 dex
finishing hops such as cluster or saaz
Better yeast, eg ale yeast or lager yeast from Fermentis, or a Nottingham

Ferment below 20*

Gelatine finings to drop the yeast (clarity is another common whinge from non brewers as they invariably hold the glass up to the light)
Polyclar to get rid of chill haze. Some kits can chuck bad chill hazes.

Dave, I bet that if you try something similar to the above, to see if it's to your taste, you'll end up with something 'twang free' and very quaffable without breaking the bank.
 
I stopped brewing for about 5 years because I was sick of that home brew taste.
I used to do K&K for about 10 years, but as my tasted developed and I stopped buying VB and Carlton and tended to only buy German Lagers or Aussie Craft beers or Belgians, I found my own crap intolerable.

When I was talked back into brewing by a commercial brewer, the first thing he told me to do was drop the brew temp and use a better yeast.
It made a HUGE difference.

That was almost a year ago... I passed thru the extract boil phaze then turned to the dark side about 3 months ago.
 
S Dave70 said:
My first crack at kegging was with Kilkenny which I succeded in freezing solid,( it tasted fizzy & flat at the same time) so I cant realy blame the kit and Ive got a Sierra Nevada in the secondary at the moment.That one's looking good and I even chilled and drank a little after I took the SG the other night, flat but good.
Before that it was garden variety Coopers kits from Coles made with.... sugar.....
 
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