That ' Home Brew' Taste.

[Thirsty Boy]

Why does homebrew have that homebrew taste - because you give it to people and tell them its homebrew. There is a difference between the reaction of people to your home brew, and actually making bad homebrew.
Actually bad homebrew is going to be the result of bad sanitation, less than fresh ingredients and poor yeast / fermentation.

Bad reactions to the flavour of your good homebrew are going to be about two things - the ability of your friends to differentiate between the actual presence of flavour, and bad flavour, and appearance. If its cloudy.... there is no way on gods green earth that a non-brewer is going to believe that it doesn't taste "homebrew" like.

Test em out ... see how they react to a bottle of great beer from a micro brewer - if its still homebrewy, then its them, or even just bottle of coopers red nicely rolled. If all that yeast drives them to "homebrew" comments... its them.

As for how to make your K&K better - I have a document I wrote for my brother in laws dad - a guy who's beer did indeed taste homebrewy - it might be useful to some here who haven't seen it, so I'll post again. Its about making the most of straight K&K, no hops, no improvers, no steeping grain, just getting better beer out of the K & the K

TB

View attachment Kit_Beers___Beyond_the_Instructions.doc

 

[flattop]

+1 Fermented, my Cerveza's (about 4 brews) all tasted crap for the first 2-3 weeks, the first one now is quite good (for a cerveza) at around 2 months old and the one that was dry hopped and added dme tastes the funkiest and has a fantastic head retention compared to the others.... The one with US-05 yeast is still fresh (bottled a week ago) and will be tested next week but i expect a better brew from a better yeast!

 

[achy02]

+1 Fermented, my Cerveza's (about 4 brews) all tasted crap for the first 2-3 weeks, the first one now is quite good (for a cerveza) at around 2 months old and the one that was dry hopped and added dme tastes the funkiest and has a fantastic head retention compared to the others.... The one with US-05 yeast is still fresh (bottled a week ago) and will be tested next week but i expect a better brew from a better yeast!

Hi flattop

Slightly off topic but I was wondering what you dry hopped the Cerveza with? I have just brewed my own and damn it does it have that homebrew cider taste!

Ps it was a Blackrock kit with dex (no dry enzyme - 9 days in the fermenter, kept at around 20deg - tastes like shite)

 

[flattop]

Sure i used kit i think 250gms dme and 1 k dex and Hersbrucker Hops which are rated at mild to semi strong. I used about 15-20gms for around 5 days.
It seems to have made the brew slightly overcarbed as a similar brew doesn't have a head like this FG was around 1006 so it wasn't the yeast per say.
I probably would go for a different hop next time with more nose and less flavor as it is quite noticeable but it may have been the kit as this was the only non coopers Cerveza i made.
9 days is cutting it fine also, although most of my brews are 10-14 so not much more.
The Coopers Cerveza's all turned out ok after a month, before that they were pure shite. Some would say that Cerveza is shite and i have to say it's fairly flavorless, but the Ita rellies love it.
I may consider Halletauer next time.

 

[achy02]

Sure i used kit i think 250gms dme and 1 k dex and Hersbrucker Hops which are rated at mild to semi strong. I used about 15-20gms for around 5 days.
It seems to have made the brew slightly overcarbed as a similar brew doesn't have a head like this FG was around 1006 so it wasn't the yeast per say.
I probably would go for a different hop next time with more nose and less flavor as it is quite noticeable but it may have been the kit as this was the only non coopers Cerveza i made.
9 days is cutting it fine also, although most of my brews are 10-14 so not much more.
The Coopers Cerveza's all turned out ok after a month, before that they were pure shite. Some would say that Cerveza is shite and i have to say it's fairly flavorless, but the Ita rellies love it.
I may consider Halletauer next time.

I havent bottled it yet so I will give it another 5 days in the fermenter and see if I cant dry hop it with some Halletauer. Many thanks for the info. Cheers

 

[Crusty]

I had previuosly done K&K for years. Same old routine of adding the goo, adding the sugar, toss it in the fermenter. Wait a couple of weeks & bottle it with a little sugar & wait 6-8 weeks for it to carbonate, then drink it. Same story every time, drinkable, but definately home brew. I have since ridded myself of any home brew tasting beers since joining this forum. Two words my friend, All Grain. Very easy to do once you get you're head around the process & let me tell you, them mates of your's won't be goin home anytime soon.
Go for it. You won't believe how good beer actually tastes after years of commercial torture. I drank a stubbie the other night at our staff christmas party & I can actually taste the preservatives or whatever it is in the beer. I used to strive to replicate a commercial tasting beer from my home brew. If I done an all grain that tasted like a commercial beer, it would end up down the sink.
Cheers,
Brian

 

[Thirsty Boy]

You're doing better than me crusty - going AG didn't change my friends perception of my beer one iota - its good... for homebrew. Which is why I have formulated my opinion - it doesn't matter HOW good the homebrew is, if your friends know its homebrew, then there will be certain of them who will never ever be able to recognize it as good in its own right - only not bad, but it still tastes like HB.

Of course in my case it might just be that the homebrew isn't all that good... but thats not the way I choose to look at it.

My friends get very little of the beer I go to a lot of trouble to make.. screw em. Let em drink TED, its all they deserve.

 

[flattop]

I agree AG is the cure for all woe's, but this was a K&K question..... and really the dudes doing K&K deserve answers that are not always AG.
I think if you look at Pumpy's earlier thread that all HBS are rip offs, you can see K&K has its place particularly for beginners and those who want to hone their skills before migrating to the dark side.

 

[jimmy01]

I have been doing AG for 3 years now. Still learning with every brew.

Every now and then when I am feeling a bit lazy I try a kit. I have applied the knowledge to the kit beer that I have developed from AG, but still I can't get rid of that kit twang.

Things that I have done to try and improve the kit beer:
- selected the can with the longest expiry date
- pre-boiled all the water
- added some additional hops
- used LDME instead of dextrose or brew blends
- used a better yeast including liquid yeasts
- fermented under temperature control

Still can't get rid of the twang.

Leads me to believe that the twang comes from the process used to prepare the malt syrup in the can.

Cheers
Dave

 

[flattop]

I believe you are right Jimmy, from all i have read it has to do with the process to can and preserve the goo.
That said i have brews which have little or no twang. Particularly if you choose a style of goop that is not in the mainstream.
My 3K ESB Belgian Wheat has never had it. My Cerveza's lose it after a month. The ESB Smokey Belgian doesn't have it.
I made a larger with a wheat cake yeast which was standard coopers goop and that didn't have it.
But in fairness the liquid wort kit that i used definitely didn't have it either (obviously).

 

[jimmy01]

I believe you are right Jimmy, from all i have read it has to do with the process to can and preserve the goo.
That said i have brews which have little or no twang. Particularly if you choose a style of goop that is not in the mainstream.
My 3K ESB Belgian Wheat has never had it. My Cerveza's lose it after a month. The ESB Smokey Belgian doesn't have it.
I made a larger with a wheat cake yeast which was standard coopers goop and that didn't have it.
But in fairness the liquid wort kit that i used definitely didn't have it either (obviously).

Hi Flattop

what brand of kit do you use for your Cerveza? Thats the style I'm often looking for when I do a kit. I have tried Brewcraft, Morgans and Coopers without success. Used S-23 for the yeast.

Cheers

 

[reviled]

I had previuosly done K&K for years. Same old routine of adding the goo, adding the sugar, toss it in the fermenter. Wait a couple of weeks & bottle it with a little sugar & wait 6-8 weeks for it to carbonate, then drink it. Same story every time, drinkable, but definately home brew. I have since ridded myself of any home brew tasting beers since joining this forum. Two words my friend, All Grain. Very easy to do once you get you're head around the process & let me tell you, them mates of your's won't be goin home anytime soon.
Go for it. You won't believe how good beer actually tastes after years of commercial torture. I drank a stubbie the other night at our staff christmas party & I can actually taste the preservatives or whatever it is in the beer. I used to strive to replicate a commercial tasting beer from my home brew. If I done an all grain that tasted like a commercial beer, it would end up down the sink.
Cheers,
Brian

I agree with this whereas the majority of my mates dont complain about my beer since moving to AG and a heap of them regularly try to convince me to sell it, but I also agree with Thirsty where you are allways gonna get the occassional asshole who cant describe flavour and hides behind the words "homebrewish."

My father in law told me my beer was homebrewish the other day, but when I questioned him, he couldnt tell me what he meant by that... I asked him if it had too much flavour for him, and he couldnt tell me... This is someone who drinks really expensive wine, and appreciates it, but drinks crap like Corona, and Heineken, to me that makes no sense, drink really flavourfull wine, but drink beer that tastes like water??? :huh: Whenever I drink commercial beer now all I can taste is sugar, theyre all far too sweet! <_<

 

[quantocks]

a lot of you guys seem to bag Heine, I love that stuff. It's pretty decent for what's available anyway. I just polished off a case of VB, it does indeed taste extremely watery. But my brother won't touch my homebrew for some weird reason.

 

[flattop]

I use Coopers, i have used another brand but the flavor was less good. In fact i find Cerveza to be flavorless but it keeps the missus happy. I think the key to reducing aftertaste with that brew is to keep fermentation temps down below 20*, use a decent amount of dme not just dex and use a yeast such as US-05 (haven't tried s-23). After that leave it in the primary for 14 days and then in the bottle for at least another month. Then you will have a clear beer that will have the minimum of aftertaste. Also remember that everyone's taste is different so what you perceive that you taste others may not. Perhaps we are our own worst critics.

Quick note, i checked S-23, recommends temps below 15*c and has fruity esters... perhaps this is not helping.
http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/pdf/SaflagerS-23.pdf

US-05 recommended below 24* with a crisp clean finish... perhaps the yeast is the key in your case.
http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/pdf/SafaleUS05.pdf

 

[Pollux]

I have been doing AG for 3 years now. Still learning with every brew.

Every now and then when I am feeling a bit lazy I try a kit. I have applied the knowledge to the kit beer that I have developed from AG, but still I can't get rid of that kit twang.

Things that I have done to try and improve the kit beer:
- selected the can with the longest expiry date
- pre-boiled all the water
- added some additional hops
- used LDME instead of dextrose or brew blends
- used a better yeast including liquid yeasts
- fermented under temperature control

Still can't get rid of the twang.

Leads me to believe that the twang comes from the process used to prepare the malt syrup in the can.

Cheers
Dave

Agree to all of the above, but remember that after doing kit and bits, it's not much of a slip to land in all extract territory.....

As for improving a kit,

- Use all malt
- Steep some speciality grains
- Use some additional flavour and aroma hops
- Use a better yeast and control the temp of the ferment...

 

[boingk]

Agree to all of the above, but remember that after doing kit and bits, it's not much of a slip to land in all extract territory.....

As for improving a kit,

- Use all malt
- Steep some speciality grains
- Use some additional flavour and aroma hops
- Use a better yeast and control the temp of the ferment...

Exactly. I'm not 100% on the all malt, but it is a good place to start. My standard throw-in consists of 500g LDME and 300g dextrose, as well as 200g of a grain suitable for the style. Or, hell, one thats not...experiments can be fun, and tasty as well. The grains and hops might sound like a lot of trouble to go to just to put down a K&K brew, but while I'm sanitising I throw a few litres of water on the lowest setting on my stove and put the grain in with it. 20min later, when my tin is busy running into the fermenter, I strain the liquid off into another saucepan, rinse the grain with hot water and throw that in with the obtained wort. Then I throw the hops in and simmer for 15-20min. Stove off, throw the lot into the fermenter. 3 or 4 days into fermentation I'll dry hop and leave it for a week. All done, bottling time

Cheers all, keep the K&K alive - boingk

 

[cfresh]

I had sworn off dextrose for some time as I thought it was contributing to the twang factor.
Another reason for my negativity towards dextrose was that my father in law uses a great deal of it to "top up" to 4.9% and he was regularly getting that terrible medicine type taste - (he believes its not a true beer unless its that strength). Now after reading a few things I might try to encourage him into using a better yeast as the kits he buys only have 5g...

To further support the yeast theory one of my best ever brews (even the swill drinkers loved it) was a Coopers Pale Ale:

1 x Coopers Pale Ale tin
1kg Brewiser Liquid Sugar!!
500g LDME
5g Glacier Hops steeped in with 500ml water for 20 mins
Recultured yeast from 2x Pale Ale stubbies.

I didnt expect much as I was using 1kg sugar (was on super special) but Im now of the opinion that the yeast made ALL the difference and no twang. Maybe ill try it with normal yeast one day but why mess with a winner.

I made an all extract brew on the weekend with LDME, Steeped Grain, and US56. So I cant wait to see the result of that given some opinions on using too much LDME in this thread.

 

[brettprevans]

a bit OT but wtf is 5g of hops going to contribute to flavour? esp glacier. sweet FA I would have thought. I think my last glacier brew used about 30g and I thought it only just enough and could have used another 20g.

Nothing wrong with K&K.

 

[flattop]

Agree 5gms of hops is unlikely to balance out the sweetness of all ldme and steeped grains... but perhaps that is the flavor profile he is looking for.

 

[brettprevans]

true true.