Test Running My Ag Setup

[sponge]

Why test run with just water, why not do a batch and see how it goes?

I was going to do a test run in january after i have everything just to check that there are no leaks, the burner can get the wort to a rolling boil etc etc... just overly cautious i guess...

 

[buttersd70]

AG means not being limited by batch sizes. You can brew to whatever volume you want....so the question that is most relevant as far as the element is concerned is not 'what volume should my boil be', but rather 'what volume should my boil be at the end of the boil'. So the answer to that is 24-25L, which is what you said it takes to safely cover the element.

So, lets say 25L for the moment......you then have loss to trub, and loss to cooling. Cooling loss is about 4% ish, which for 25L post boil, turns it into 24L....then there is loss to trub, and this depends on the kettle. Lets say for arguments sake it is 2L.....so your 25L post boil volume equates to a 22L batch. Which is enough to allow for some loss of volume to racking, will give you a corny, and a few sample bottles on top. Good size. Personally, I aim for 23L batch size still....enough for a corny, losses in racking, nice clean transfers because I don't have to go right the way down to the yeastcake, and a couple of bottles left over. Perfic.

So lets say you want that extra litre, resulting in a 23L end batch...this will give you a bit of safety margin for the element, giving 26L in the kettle post boil.....from there, for the batch size, you need to know the evaporation loss due to boil. This can vary considerably, but is usually somewhere between 9%-15% for a 1 hour boil.....for your first batch, I would say split the difference, and call it 12%. In your case, because you need to protect the element, better to overestimate and get a larger volume, than to underestimate and expose the element.....after the first one, you will know what your losses are going to be, and can change the figures for next time.

So for 12% loss, to achieve 26L in the kettle at the end of the boil (before cooling), you would need 29.55L preboil volume.

Hope this helps.

 

[pokolbinguy]

Thanks Butters that explanation was just what I needed.

Ok now in the recipe data base of AHB each recipe states a volume (e.g This recipe that is for 23L) does this mean the final volume...the volume you would ferment??? And then because each set up is different your boil volume would vary dependant on loss to trub, evaporation etc???

Cheers, Pok

 

[buttersd70]

Exactly. You might need to make minor changes to allow for different efficiency as well, but it's purely guesswork what your efficiency will be until after the first one......but be optimistic, go for the 75% as in the recipe. It's achievable....I know Muckey got 74% for his first, and 77% for his second.

 

[jeremy]

Why test run with just water, why not do a batch and see how it goes?

+1!

Only thing you appear to have forgotten is the GRAIN!

Seriously though, 5kg of JWM trad wont break the bank, and it would be a more accurate test run, and as an added bonus you end up with beer.

Sorry, I know this opinion wasn't very helpful and wasn't asked for...

 

[pokolbinguy]

Exactly. You might need to make minor changes to allow for different efficiency as well, but it's purely guesswork what your efficiency will be until after the first one......but be optimistic, go for the 75% as in the recipe. It's achievable....I know Muckey got 74% for his first, and 77% for his second.

Ok so another question.....yes these might sound silly but got to start somewhere.

If the "efficiency" is 75% does this refer to a volume of liquid (e.g for a 23L final volume at 75% the original boil would be approx 31lts) or is purely to do with the extraction of sugars from the grain (this is what I always thought it meant)...so with a higher efficiency you just use less grain/hops????

So....If I want to make DrSmurto's Golden Ale for my 1st AG...which calls for 4.25kg of grain at 70% efficiency for a 20L volume...but I want to end up with 23L (15% higher volume)...do I increase the ingredients by 15% = approx 4.9kg grain. Ignoring the efficiency of 70%..

Going off what you said earlier (we'll use those figures to make this easier) the pre boil volume would be 29.55L (as calculated in your example).

So my mash would be 4.9kg or grain in say 30L ????

Am I on the right track??

Thanks a bundle for this...

Cheers, Pok

 

[pokolbinguy]

+1!

Only thing you appear to have forgotten is the GRAIN!

Seriously though, 5kg of JWM trad wont break the bank, and it would be a more accurate test run, and as an added bonus you end up with beer.

Sorry, I know this opinion wasn't very helpful and wasn't asked for...

Thats alright jeremy.....I wanted to go through all of it with water 1st so I can make sure everything is running properly...e.g no leaks etc just like Sponge mentioned above.

Best to get leaks, priming problems etc out of the way before chucking the grain in.

Cheers, Pok

 

[clean brewer]

Thats alright jeremy.....I wanted to go through all of it with water 1st so I can make sure everything is running properly...e.g no leaks etc just like Sponge mentioned above.

Best to get leaks, priming problems etc out of the way before chucking the grain in.

Cheers, Pok

Yes mate, all ya need to do is heat up your water to the temps that youll be using and put in your esky and leave for a bit to ensure it doesnt leak(mine did with hot water alot), then drain into your kettle and bring to boil and check for leaks also(mine leaked aswell)... Its better doing a quickie run the night before with water than waking up and starting a batch and precious liquid leaks from every orifice...

After I tested mine and it leaked at night, I just got up in the morning, fixed it and away I went with my brew..

 

[clean brewer]

Ok so another question.....yes these might sound silly but got to start somewhere.

If the "efficiency" is 75% does this refer to a volume of liquid (e.g for a 23L final volume at 75% the original boil would be approx 31lts) or is purely to do with the extraction of sugars from the grain (this is what I always thought it meant)...so with a higher efficiency you just use less grain/hops????

So....If I want to make DrSmurto's Golden Ale for my 1st AG...which calls for 4.25kg of grain at 70% efficiency for a 20L volume...but I want to end up with 23L (15% higher volume)...do I increase the ingredients by 15% = approx 4.9kg grain. Ignoring the efficiency of 70%..

Going off what you said earlier (we'll use those figures to make this easier) the pre boil volume would be 29.55L (as calculated in your example).

So my mash would be 4.9kg or grain in say 30L ????

Am I on the right track??

Thanks a bundle for this...

Cheers, Pok

1. Efficiency is the percentage of the extraction of the sugars of the grain, if your brew only acheives a lower efficiency, yes you may need to use more Grain, if you are achieving a Higher efficiency you will use less grain... Probably best just to put your efficiency into Beersmith/or whatever as 70%, if you achieve higher, thats great.

2. I did Dr Smurtos Golden Ale for my first and used the exact same Grain Bill with an extra 200gr Cara-red and my recipe had 72% efficiency punched in, I ended up with 23ltrs to ferment and my efficiency ended up being 80%, just to be on the safe side, keep it at 70% and use the 4.9kg of grain(I had only ordered the 4.25kg from Ross so I just used that plus the Cara-red, was just lucky to get 80% so I achieved all my targets..

Your on the right track from what I see, one of the other guys on the forum fixed up the recipe in Beersmith for me as apparently there is a couple little hiccups on it that have to be adjusted in other areas to give you your proper volumes etc

Cheers

Correct me if im wrong anyone.....

 

[Tony]

my 2 bobs worth.

Use the test run to

make sure you can heat the water.
check your system for leaks.
pump some hot water through all pipework to clean it out.
check your burmer will boil the volume of liquid you plan to boil as a brew
measure the temp of the water in the HLT and then in the mash tun after transfer to work out roughly the thermal mass of the mash tun.

dont bother wasting time with checking cooling of the mash because its not a mash.

other sugestions.

wrap the mash tun in some HD foam or a camping matress foam thing and warp in duct tape to crudly insulate it. If its a steel mash tun you will lose lots of heat. insulation will halve the loss or more. work on some better insulation late on down the track.

If you want to check your temp probe drop by my place one day and we will calibrate it to some mercury glass jobs i have that i know are right.

cheers

 

[pokolbinguy]

Ok so I'm pretty sure I have sorted all the leaks....well I hope so. I went through and put plumbers tape on all the threads and silicon washers (made from a baking tray) on the fittings aswell.

Will have to chuck some water in the kettle and do a test boil but other than that all seems like it should be ok.

Now to get some grain....

Pok

 

[datman510]

One thing you could probably do in your dry run is check your volume pre boil, boil for the desired time and recheck the level (boil off) then cool it and see how much it contracts (you'll be suprised how much) Im doing 26lt batches at the moment and my preboil is up around the 38 lt mark.Your first few AG's are all about the process and getting your gear dialed, dont worry too much about whether you miss you mash by a degree or two or if you forget to recycle before you collect from the mash tun. My first AG i did a 26 lt batch and ended up 9lts short on volume but the beer still tastes absolutely sensational. Write yourself a detailed planner for the day and follow it. IF you have someone you can call during the process with questions thats valuable too.... but just go with it, you'll be fine.

Good Luck and keep us posted.