Syrup Consistency With My Beer

[Jase71]

I brewed an ale in the style of JSGA recently and after a couple of months it's a damn fine drop, actually better than the beer that inspired it's inception. However it's slightly on the thick side, and seems a bit syrup-like - that's the best I can describe it. Any ideas what the reason for this may be, because I would prefer it to be a bit thinned down next time I do it.

The suspects are:

1. 100grams Maltodextrin (that's my pick - and also probably added a bit too much sweetness)
2. 200 grams LDME (my second suspect)
3. 100grams Dextrose (although my thoughts were that this would add gravity points without adverse affects to the beer)
4. Steeped Crystal Grain, around 150grams (does this have ANY effect apart from flavour?)

I need to rebalance things for next time to get a 'thinner' beer, but achieve an ABV of between 4 & 5 (I'm not fussy on the exactness, as long as it falls somewhere in between).

So what would the preferred method be to jack up the OG if my liquid malt to water ratio is pre-calculated on the low side ? It was suggested to me yesterday to use nothing more than dextrose to bring the figures up.

For the record I used 1.5kg each of liquid light malt & liquid wheat/barley malt.

 

[chappo1970]

What was your batch volume Jase? Crystal is meant to add mouth feel. Is the carbonation a bit low as I have found that can give a feeling of syrup?

 

[Ronin]

I brewed an ale in the style of JSGA recently and after a couple of months it's a damn fine drop, actually better than the beer that inspired it's inception. However it's slightly on the thick side, and seems a bit syrup-like - that's the best I can describe it. Any ideas what the reason for this may be, because I would prefer it to be a bit thinned down next time I do it.

The suspects are:

1. 100grams Maltodextrin (that's my pick - and also probably added a bit too much sweetness)
2. 200 grams LDME (my second suspect)
3. 100grams Dextrose (although my thoughts were that this would add gravity points without adverse affects to the beer)
4. Steeped Crystal Grain, around 150grams (does this have ANY effect apart from flavour?)

I need to rebalance things for next time to get a 'thinner' beer, but achieve an ABV of between 4 & 5 (I'm not fussy on the exactness, as long as it falls somewhere in between).

So what would the preferred method be to jack up the OG if my liquid malt to water ratio is pre-calculated on the low side ? It was suggested to me yesterday to use nothing more than dextrose to bring the figures up.

For the record I used 1.5kg each of liquid light malt & liquid wheat/barley malt.

Dextrose will thin the beer if anything. It's completely fermentable and will leave nothing behind but ethanol.

Steeping crystal malt will add some body, it's not completely fermentable. I'm not sure if there's any relationship between the colour of the grain and the fermetability of the sugars, but there will definataly be some unfermentables in crystal that contribute sweetness and body.

I'm not sure about LDME, it's definately not 100% fermentable like glucose (which is why you have to add more if you prime with it), so there should be some body/sweetness added when you use it.

Not sure if you taste maltodextrin, I think it's only moderately sweet, although it wil add body as it isn't very fermentable.

I think it might be a combination of the crystal, LDME and maltodextrin. They'll all add body (syrupy) and all add some residual sweetness.

That's my take anyway,

James

 

[kook]

What was the OG/FG and yeast strain used?

Often it can be difficult to get decent attenuation with all-extract brews. You might get better results with a more attenuative yeast strain, or changing to a different brand of extract.

 

[Jase71]

What was the OG/FG and yeast strain used?

I knew I'de be asked for more detail . Regrettably, this is the first beer in which my note-taking was lacking, but I can peice it together (later). The yeast was either S04 or S05.

 

[Fourstar]

If it was 04, it under attenuates compared to US 05. Use that next time if thats the case.

I would drop Maltodextrin altogether and sub it with DME... no real need for it.

 

[Adamt]

I agree with kook, all (or dominantly) extract beers do tend to end up underattenuated. Though I'm always loathe to recommend it, maybe replace 500g-1kg of the extract with 500g of dextrose? FYI, dextrose ferments completely and doesn't contribute to the "body".

EDIT: And yes, drop the maltodextrin, it's poo.



:icon_offtopic: I've never seen you talk about brewing before Jase!

 

[Bribie G]

At the risk of sounding like a cracked record in the days when records would crack:

The only connection between Maltodextrin and Malted barley products is the first four letters. It can be made from any starch, I believe a lot of it actually comes from potatoes. It gives added head retention and lacing but can give a slimy mouthfeel. It is mainly produced to go into processed food products and its use in home brewing is a mixture of coincidence and the fact that the first four letters are a good marketing tool.... ooh malty, must be good for my brew.

For more head and mouthfeel something like Carapils is more the go.

 

[Jase71]

At the risk of sounding like a cracked record in the days when records would crack:

The only connection between Maltodextrin and Malted barley products is the first four letters. It can be made from any starch, I believe a lot of it actually comes from potatoes. It gives added head retention and lacing but can give a slimy mouthfeel. It is mainly produced to go into processed food products and its use in home brewing is a mixture of coincidence and the fact that the first four letters are a good marketing tool.... ooh malty, must be good for my brew.

For more head and mouthfeel something like Carapils is more the go.

Um, I don't think anyone here is comparing maltodextrin to malt. My beer wasn't driven by it. But it's a good post for the total noobs I s'pose.

 

[tcraig20]

I dislike maltodextrin as much as the next bloke, but I dont think its the culprit in this case. There is only 100 grams of the stuff - not enough to cause problems - BE2 has 250g.

The only time Ive ever had a sickly, slimy feeling in beer is from using BE1, which I believe is 400 or 600 grams maltodextrin.

I suspect that the culprit may in fact be that this is a heavy beer. If I read properly, it has 3kg liquid malt, 200g LDME, 100g maltodextrin ad 100g dextrose. In a 23 litre batch that would give an OG of 1.051. The crystal might add another point.

 

[kook]

At the risk of sounding like a cracked record in the days when records would crack:

The only connection between Maltodextrin and Malted barley products is the first four letters. It can be made from any starch, I believe a lot of it actually comes from potatoes. It gives added head retention and lacing but can give a slimy mouthfeel. It is mainly produced to go into processed food products and its use in home brewing is a mixture of coincidence and the fact that the first four letters are a good marketing tool.... ooh malty, must be good for my brew.

For more head and mouthfeel something like Carapils is more the go.

As said above, I don't think anyone is comparing it.

Kit focused HB stores have long sold maltodextrin as an "easy-to-use" product that will add body / aid in head retention, which can often be a problem with a kit/kilo of dextrose. I don't think it's use in homebrew is a mixture of coincidence, nor anything to do with the word "malt" being in it.

It has everything to do with the properties it brings to a beer, without requiring steeping. It's a hell of a lot easier for a (lazy) HB store owner to tell a person to chuck in 250g of maltodextrin than explain how to crush and steep carapils. Remember - many of these stores don't even have a mill, and some don't stock grains at all!

 

[jonocarroll]

I would agree that it sounds like the beer has too much body. I'd suspect that the FG was higher than you would really like, either due to the fermentable content or yeast, as has been stated. I'd wager somewhere around 1.015-1.020 to give it the syrupy feel.

The steeped crystal will play a part in this, though it may be small at 150g. I've had a kit go 'syrupy' by just dropping the volume to 18L. That was a lovely ginger beer though, so it worked well with the flavours. Wouldn't like it in a wheat at all.

 

[Bribie G]

As said above, I don't think anyone is comparing it.

Kit focused HB stores have long sold maltodextrin as an "easy-to-use" product that will add body / aid in head retention, which can often be a problem with a kit/kilo of dextrose. I don't think it's use in homebrew is a mixture of coincidence, nor anything to do with the word "malt" being in it.

It has everything to do with the properties it brings to a beer, without requiring steeping. It's a hell of a lot easier for a (lazy) HB store owner to tell a person to chuck in 250g of maltodextrin than explain how to crush and steep carapils. Remember - many of these stores don't even have a mill, and some don't stock grains at all!

Yup when I said 'coincidence' what I meant was that, although Maltodextrin was never intended to be a beer additive it does, almost miraculously, provide a couple of benefits that apply to home brew. I have used many a packet of BE2 in my kit days and agree that it does the job. However I maintain for the average new punter walking into a LHBS, unfamiliar with the terminology, anything with 'malt' in the name is going to look nicely home brewish although it's probably been brewed from potatoes or cassava whatever.

In the UK we would buy packs of 'heading agent' that did more or less the same thing. Goodness knows what the heading agent was but we bought them for the effect. Probably maltodex

 

[mckenry]

I brewed an ale in the style of JSGA recently and after a couple of months it's a damn fine drop, actually better than the beer that inspired it's inception.

Holy sheet! There is a lot of talk about this considering the above :lol: If it's REALLY that good - you're already on a winner. End of topic.
kidding.

 

[MHB]

With OG its all about how much you put into how many litres.

If you made the batch up to 22.5 L the OG should be about 1.051 (assuming 50% extraction from the Xal)

The same ingredients in 18 L gives an OG of close to 1.064.



With what you have said, unless there is something very off about the batch size, you can forget about the Maltodextrin, and the effect from the Xal, its going to be all down to the yeast and how it preformed.



Have a look at the temperature you brewed at and the age/health of the yeast you pitched, 04 and 05 both rate as medium attenuators, so 72-75 %, not really going to make a huge difference.



On Maltodextrin, it cops a caning around here, frankly its a tool, like any other used appropriately its just fine, used badly it isnt going to improve the brew.

Maybe a lot of AHBers would be more comfortable if we called it Cornsyrup like the yanks do when ever you see it in recipes.



MHB