Swiss Lager At 19 Degrees, Is This Possible?

[BjornJ]

Cracked another bottle of the lager with S-189 today....


...


..

Wow.

Only been brewing for 2 years.
My wife never likes my beers.
Too hoppy, too roasty, not enough carbonation, always something or other.
I take it as encouragement, meaning my beers do not taste like Toohey's New or VB.


Today she had a taste of this lager and liked it. So much she won't give the glass back

Big moment, actually brewed a beer my wife enjoyed!

I still think it is too fruity, but will try it again at maybe a lower temp.

70% pilsner malt
16% munich
6% carapils
8% sugar (half/half dextrose and cane sugar, ran out of dextrose)

5 min at 55 degrees, 85 mins at 66.

S-189 at 17 degrees.

A winner on the domestic front



Bjorn

 

[Nevalicious]

Cracked another bottle of the lager with S-189 today....


...


..

Wow.

Only been brewing for 2 years.
My wife never likes my beers.
Too hoppy, too roasty, not enough carbonation, always something or other.
I take it as encouragement, meaning my beers do not taste like Toohey's New or VB.


Today she had a taste of this lager and liked it. So much she won't give the glass back

Big moment, actually brewed a beer my wife enjoyed!

I still think it is too fruity, but will try it again at maybe a lower temp.

70% pilsner malt
16% munich
6% carapils
8% sugar (half/half dextrose and cane sugar, ran out of dextrose)

5 min at 55 degrees, 85 mins at 66.

S-189 at 17 degrees.

A winner on the domestic front



Bjorn

Awesome stuff. Its a definite win when you brew a beer your wife will drink.

What hops did you use in this bad boy!??

Tyler

 

[BjornJ]

ah, forgot that part!

I used Northern Brewer at 60 min to 29 IBUs.
Only bittering, no aroma or flavour hops.


OG 1.046
FG 1.012
alc 4.4% plus bottle conditioning so 3.4% alc

Everyone knows bottle conditoning takes off a % to make the bubbles.



Bjorn

edited to add the gravities.

 

[raven19]

alc 4.4% plus bottle conditioning so 3.4% alc

Everyone knows bottle conditoning takes off a % to make the bubbles.

Priming sugar adds about 0.5% alcohol give or take depending on priming sugar levels.

Edit - I have a schwarzbier fermenting warmer with S189 atm too. Looking forward to sampling it soon.

 

[Bribie G]

Well tomorrow is the big day when I put my S-189 at 19 degrees beer into cold conditioning for ten days then keg.

Chinese Lager - Strong International Lager

4.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 70.18 %
1.00 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 17.54 %
0.50 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.77 %
0.20 kg White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3.51 %

60.00 gm Saaz Chinese [3.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.1 IBU New Season B)
60.00 gm Saaz Chinese [3.00 %] (10 min) Hops 6.6 IBU

1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
1 Pkgs SafLager Swiss Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

Nothing but the best procedure for the best ingredients I say.
This should really test it out.

 

[under]

Ive been doing this with S189 at 12-14 degrees. Its a hit with everyone who drinks it. Nice, clean and dry.

Recipe: 34 - Aussie Draught
Brewer: Dazza
Asst Brewer:
Style: German Pilsner (Pils)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 26.33 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 4.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.42 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EGrain 81.14 %
0.28 kg Carapils / Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 6.69 %
17.00 gm Pride of Ringwood (Flowers) [9.80 %] (60 Hops 18.1 IBU
0.51 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 12.16 %
1 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

 

[deevee]

Bjorn, describe this fruit flavour please? I've been using 189 for years and it's the only yeast I use now, even for brewing ale type beers although I brew lagers 90% of the time.

Thanks daisy.

 

[Paul H]

60.00 gm Saaz Chinese [3.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.1 IBU New Season B)

& there's a difference in the quality between the new season & old season? I thought the importer had gone to ground?

Cheers

Paul

 

[BjornJ]

Hi Daisy,
My impression is that the beer is not "clean" like a good lager should be in my opinion.
It's quite bitter at 29.6 IBUs but no late hopping, I like the bittering.
It has a touch of sweetness, I don't know if it is from using sugar or what this is from, but there clearly is a sweetness in there (to me).
I don't think it has a homebrew twang, at least not to me.

It's just fruity, more like a pale ale than a lager? Not sure how to describe, it starts out ok then becomes a little "ale like" if that makes sense.



Whould you mind writing a little about your experiences with the S-189?
Temperatures, lagering times, does it make a difference (flavour wise ) if filtering or not, etc.

Been reading a lot of different opinions on this one, I understand the craftbrewer brewery makes hundreds of litres of beer using this yeast at 19 degrees daily, so I would think their lagers do not taste like mine.. And BribieG said he had tried Ross' lager fermented at 19 degrees and it was fine.
Then Nick said to do it at 12 degrees, over that it gets fruity.

As I mentioned before Jason in the brew club did it at 19 and I did it at 17 so we'll get together and compare results.
I think Rendo ended up doing it as well, so maybe we'll end up having a S-189 tasting meet


thanks
Bjorn

 

[BjornJ]

just had Brendan from the brew club and a mate of his drop by and try the S-189 lager.
The friend thought it was ok, Brendan felt it was way to fruity for a lager but not quite a pale ale fruity.

 

[felten]

& there's a difference in the quality between the new season & old season? I thought the importer had gone to ground?

Cheers

Paul

Just migrated to another forum

 

[Bribie G]

So far it seems good - heaps of aroma out of the kettle but lagering -> kegging -> drinking will tell.

 

[deevee]

It's just fruity, more like a pale ale than a lager? Not sure how to describe, it starts out ok then becomes a little "ale like" if that makes sense.

Whould you mind writing a little about your experiences with the S-189?
Temperatures, lagering times, does it make a difference (flavour wise ) if filtering or not, etc.

Oh I like the idea of a Ale like" beer because my last batch I made an ale and instead of using US-05, thought give the 189 a go at 16-18c. Tastes Ale like to me but still has that clean lagery character.


I've used S189 for about 5 years now and mainly brew lagers. However as some of the guys in the Canberra Brewers would know my methods, I'm a "Lazy Lager" brewer. As in I don't follow the conventional lagering technique. I pitch the yeast at around 18 - 24 depending on whether it is winter or summer, obviosuly my immersion element will not cool it down past 26c in summer. Eventually the beer will ferment at 12-14c in the fermenting fridge until complete. Then I would transfer into kegs but also prime my kegs with dextrose. I have force carbed sometimes but fine that in my case, the beers tasted better primed. So once kegged, would leave it at room temp (anywhere from 12 - 20c) for a couple weeks. Then fridge for a day or two, open lid, add gelatin solution (1 tsp in 100ml cooled boiled water), reseal. Leave a couple of days and drink beer clears up after a couple of schooners). I always have some kegs conditioning so I'm not in a rush to drink a new batch.

That is all I do. I have used liquid lager yeasts like Budvar but find it doesn't give the best results with my method, however it is better when lagered correctly at cold temps. And in saying that, I find that yeast when treated correctly is similar to 189 anyway. So 189 is so much easier to use and handle and temp fluctuations doesn't seem to hurt it at all. Sulfur and diacetyl is so minimal in 189 I find in the end product.

I don't filter or anything like that. Just simple stuff here. And years ago I used to do various styles, now I just make beers I really like to drink, and that is lagers and S189 is all I use.

cheers Daisy

 

[Nick JD]

How long is it taking you fellas at 12C to ferment out S189 in a 1.050 SG?

It takes me the same time as what people are saying for 19C - which surely brings up the question of, Why the need for 19C?

Am I missing something? I'm all for pushing shortcuts in brewing if they have minimal impact but I'm not getting the need for 19C.

 

[dougsbrew]

hi there bjorn, i too last night had a win when i handed my latest s-189 to the missus and got a thumbs up,
was a little like vb which she likes, i used mostly munich1, wheat, pilsner, and hopped with por.
this is a good sign that our brews must be getting better.

 

[samhaldane]

How long is it taking you fellas at 12C to ferment out S189 in a 1.050 SG?

How much yeast do you pitch in that wort at that temp Nick?

 

[Nick JD]

How much yeast do you pitch in that wort at that temp Nick?

1 packet at 20-24C brought down to 12C within 12-18 hours (coinciding with active fermentation beginning). I'm basically following Wyeast's recommendations to have the wort in the early 20s for the yeast in its aerobic growth phase.

 

[Bribie G]

The 19 degrees is, of course, pushing it but it's the temperature that Bacchus Brewing keep their ferm room for all the brews and I guess that didn't happen overnight (picture graph of Bacchus temperatures over the last couple of years wandering up and down and finally stabilising at 19 )

So I guess the 19 is a sort of "Ross Benchmark Gold Standard" or something. I always get sulphur with S-189 even at 16 degrees and wonder if I'm doing something wrong - maybe should aerate more or use some nutrient - as Ross says definitely no sulphur at his temps and his beers on tap don't have that sulphur background.

 

[DJR]

The 19 degrees is, of course, pushing it but it's the temperature that Bacchus Brewing keep their ferm room for all the brews and I guess that didn't happen overnight (picture graph of Bacchus temperatures over the last couple of years wandering up and down and finally stabilising at 19 )

So I guess the 19 is a sort of "Ross Benchmark Gold Standard" or something. I always get sulphur with S-189 even at 16 degrees and wonder if I'm doing something wrong - maybe should aerate more or use some nutrient - as Ross says definitely no sulphur at his temps and his beers on tap don't have that sulphur background.

Pitch rate? One pack in 23L?

 

[argon]

The 19 degrees is, of course, pushing it but it's the temperature that Bacchus Brewing keep their ferm room for all the brews and I guess that didn't happen overnight (picture graph of Bacchus temperatures over the last couple of years wandering up and down and finally stabilising at 19 )

So I guess the 19 is a sort of "Ross Benchmark Gold Standard" or something. I always get sulphur with S-189 even at 16 degrees and wonder if I'm doing something wrong - maybe should aerate more or use some nutrient - as Ross says definitely no sulphur at his temps and his beers on tap don't have that sulphur background.

I'm interested in doing the 19C for s189 thing... but at Bachus where do the fermenters sit? on the ground on concrete? I know the air temp may be 19C but what temp is the wort at and how does thermal lag of the surrounding mass effect the temps? Probably should just go have a look, but it's an interesting factor to consider. I consider that 19C in my ferm fridge with the probe stuck on the side of the fermenter may not be the same as 19C in Ross' cold room.

(Trying very hard not to sound critical... just would like some further info )