Swiss Lager At 19 Degrees, Is This Possible?

[BjornJ]

sounds great, looking forward to a test report.

if you're in Newtown, maybe we should organize a little tasting test?

Both tumi2 and I work in Australian Technology Park in Eveleigh/Redfern and we are both making lagers at the moment.

Would be fun to compare results.
Tumi2 is using a WLP800 (pilsner yeast) which he has made some great beers with in the past.
Would be fun to compare round a table WLP800 at lager temps and 4 weeks of lagering at 1 degree against our attempts at S-189?
Tumi2 got 'honorable mention' for his Pilsner with WLP800 at the Castle Hills show, so a good benchmark for sure.

thanks
Bjorn

 

[kelbygreen]

I like this not for the fact that it doesnt take as long but I could brew a lager and ale at the same time which I always find it really hard to put a lager down as dont have the time to do them also I have 2 fridges but 1 temp control lol so if ones stuck fermenting a lager then I dont have space for another beer unless its a lager then my other fridge only fits 1 fermenter in so that makes it another problem haha

 

[BjornJ]

good point, eh!

Put down a lager "Ross style" using S-189 at 17-19 degrees.
The next week chuck a fermenter with an ale in the fridge, leaving both beers for another week.
Next weekend drop the temp to 0 and leave for a week or two.

Now bottle in one go on the Saturday and brew on the Sunday if possible and you have done the complete cycle of brewing two beers and just pitched the third in one month.

We need to either get more friends or increase the consumption to keep the bottle supply ready for bottling!

Bjorn

 

[samhaldane]

if you're in Newtown, maybe we should organize a little tasting test?

Sounds great!

I guess some time between xmas and new years would be good, or early in the new year.

 

[BjornJ]

we're shut down over Christmas, but let's aim for a wee tasting session in January.

Will PM you.
Bjorn

 

[rendo]

ahhhhhh OKAY then!

hahaha....I dont want a 'Norwegian accent saying "you know you zhould haive, A. but you chickened oout!!"' haunting me each time I drink a brew....

Your points are valid, why not have a bit of fun with an experiment....DONE...

Well I hopefully will be putting the brew down this weekend, so it should be bottled, matured and ready for drinking sometime in Jan....

Hilarious!

Rendo,
come on buddy!!!
If I've forced myself to try this thing at 17, surely you can't be any worse?

We are breaking new ground here (ignoring the fact that everyone in Brisbane seems to have done so already).
If you want something to ferment at 12 degrees we have "normal" whitelabs stuff for that, let's go with the newfound optimism and go 17.

Or better still, I'll stay with my 17 and you do 19 and we'll have lunch again and compare

1: you've posted on here that you are buying to try out but worried about the high temp
2: if you go low, it will be clean, big deal..
3: If you go high, you will either be able to say this works, or be one of us with 19-degree lagers.
4: but you will regret pitching at 12 and not testing for yourself... every day while it ferments, then when you bottle, then every time you get a bottle out you will hear my Norwegian accent saying "you know you zhould haive, A. but you chickened oout!!"


My argument to myself was that for $12 you get 2 x 12 gr of S-189, let's waste one in the name of (copy)science, hehe.

(he says proudly, hoping no one remembers the fact that he never did ferment it at 19..)

Bjorn





Bjorn

 

[BjornJ]

Just a quick update,
the lager has now been 12 days at 17 degrees. I racked to a cube after 7 days to get it off the majority of the yeast as I want to reuse the yeast and add finings later to the secondary.
Will drop temp today.

When dropping the temp I just turn the fridgemate to 0 degrees and let it crash chill.

But I remember reading somewhere about dropping the temp first to 5 degrees, not to shock the yeast into secreting something-or-other that could be bad for head formation.
Then when the beer was at 5 degrees drop a degree a day.

Does anyone else do that, or just drop it as cold as possible in one go?


thanks
Bjorn

 

[BjornJ]

I've had a couple of bottles of this one after a month in the bottle or so.
It's ok, but not that great.
It is pretty fruity to me.

Brought it to the NBBC meeting on the 22nd of January and most people there seemed to like it.
So maybe it's just me

Will try it again later before I decide if wanting to try this again or not.

Bjorn

 

[Nick JD]

I've had a couple of bottles of this one after a month in the bottle or so.
It's ok, but not that great.
It is pretty fruity to me.

Brought it to the NBBC meeting on the 22nd of January and most people there seemed to like it.
So maybe it's just me

Will try it again later before I decide if wanting to try this again or not.

Bjorn

I get fruity with S189 above 15C. I ferment it at 12C and it takes less than 10 days (inc. a rest @ 20C).

If you're banging in a shedload of NZ/USA hops late then they will overpower the yeast's fruitiness ... but for a clean Euro lager I've found 189 works best in the range the manufacturer recommends (12C). YMMV.

 

[samhaldane]

I get fruity with S189 above 15C. I ferment it at 12C and it takes less than 10 days (inc. a rest @ 20C).

Do you find you need to lager it for a time after that Nick?

I didn't have very good results with mine fermented at 19C. I fermented for 10 days, then chilled down to 1C for 10 days, then kegged. It has been sitting in the kegerator for a month now, and it has only just lost the sulfur that was very obvious a week after kegging, and is only just starting to clear up (I didn't filter). The yeast character is still quite obvious and fruity.

Filtering would probably help.

 

[Nick JD]

Do you find you need to lager it for a time after that Nick?

I don't do the whole lagering thing. Just gelatine and polyclar at 20C after the diacetyl rest (and that I do more to "finish it off" the last point or two of gravity).

S189 works fine at 19C, but I've found I might as well use an Ale yeast because the results are very similar. I reckon you get a cleaner "lager" at 19C with US05 than with S189.

Ross is a much, much better brewer than I - so this is only worth the 2c it was printed on - but this is what I've found in my case.

 

[canon1ball]

Brought it to the NBBC meeting on the 22nd of January and most people there seemed to like it.
So maybe it's just me

Save one for me, didn't get to try it.
Forgot to ask you about this brew/yeast at the meeting and was about to ask when this thread popped up again.

Peter

 

[Ross]

I don't do the whole lagering thing. Just gelatine and polyclar at 20C after the diacetyl rest (and that I do more to "finish it off" the last point or two of gravity).

S189 works fine at 19C, but I've found I might as well use an Ale yeast because the results are very similar. I reckon you get a cleaner "lager" at 19C with US05 than with S189.

Ross is a much, much better brewer than I - so this is only worth the 2c it was printed on - but this is what I've found in my case.

Behave yourself Nick .... Johann is our brewer not me

We are brewing 100L to 200L a day using S-189 & S-23 & can only report our results. A good selection of the beers are on tap at the brewery for anyone to try & make their own judgement.

+++

Haldini.... I've never experienced sulphur from $-189, I reckon you may have other issues with that particular brew.

cheers Ross...

 

[Bribie G]

I bought a can of Coopers Cerveza to knock up a Xmas quickie with a mini rice n galaxy cereal mash BIAB on the side, and I have a nice Schott bottle full of S-189 slurry. Setting my fridge to 19 now.

My Cerveza pimped - up can worked great on S-189 at 19 degrees, friends and family emptied the keg very quickly - however I did get a bit of sulphur but similar to commercial Australian Lagers so it wasn't really out of place. It was commented that it was just like a pub beer (is that a compliment ?) :huh: I've got a Chinese Saaz (new crop) lager in there at the moment on a fresh foil of S-189. I ran this one at 15 for a week and have turned it up to 19 for a few days then into the lagering fridge for 10 and see how that goes. I just had a sniff in the fermenting fridge and not obvious sulphur this time around.

 

[samhaldane]

Haldini.... I've never experienced sulphur from $-189, I reckon you may have other issues with that particular brew.

Good to know Ross, thanks.

It could be the salt additions I made, which I found to be quite large to get a full volume BIAB mash of only pilsner malt down to the right pH, which is a topic for another thread.

 

[BjornJ]

thanks for the feedback, guys.

Maybe I should try it again and do 15 degrees, if that works I could try it warmer later if necessary.

Jason did it at 19 though and he says it turned out nice.

Been looking at that kg of flaked rice still in the cupboard, urging me to do a rice lager again.
Maybe that's where there the last S-189 foil pack is going.

Peter,
will save you a bottle for sure.
They're not going down very fast at mine, so far I think I have only had 2-3 plus the couple I brought to the meeting on Saturday
We should actually try them together, Jason's one with S-189 at 19 and mine at 17.


thanks
Bjorn

 

[Nick JD]

Behave yourself Nick .... Johann is our brewer not me

How much S189 does Johann pitch, Ross?

 

[Ross]

How much S189 does Johann pitch, Ross?

1 twin pack in approx 55L

Cheers Ross

 

[mckenry]

How much S189 does Johann pitch, Ross?

I'll think you'll find 25g/50L from earlier post. Rehydrated too.

 

[Duff]

We are brewing 100L to 200L a day...

Wow.