Sub for POR in a Coopers Ale

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Ask HPA what the total acreage of Pride in Australia is.

 

[technobabble66]

^^ It's previously stated on the forum somewhere a few weeks ago. Sounds like it's a common rumour in the industry.

@ tilt, i wonder if Helga might be worth a try. It's a Hallertau variety/variant, i believe, grown in Oz.
It'll be fairly different, but still fairly subtle to let the malts and yeast shine, and should be fairly dissimilar to a PA, especially if you don't dry hop with anything. Bit spicy & floral, with a slight herbal element with a smoother bitterness, i believe. Got some in the freezer, but not used it yet. Just a thought.

 

[timmi9191]

And that the conclusive proof.... Strike LC from the witness list

 

[technobabble66]

Might not be LC's proof, just what i was going on



:icon_offtopic:
BTW, timmi, how's your westy 12 clone going, & which recipe did you use?

 

[timmi9191]

Wasnt referring to your post as the conclusive proof.. You must have slipped in before me

OT - westy 12 used the HBT thread recipe. Its 3 weeks in but has stalled at 1020. aiming for 1013. Tried most things to reinvigorate but nothing. contemplating racking it to secondary and pitching some US05 to finish off the last 7 points.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

If the total acreage in Australia is zero, the total amount used by CUB must be.....

 

[yum beer]

a quick trip around CUB's website clearly labels at least 5 beers as using Pride of Ringwood.
Go to the source before having a bitch fight lads.

 

[yum beer]

It also reads like CUB may have there own hop yards to grow POR, hence why HPA say they are growing none but its still out there.
I'm glad I have my own growing then to keep my Pale Ale and Aussie lager all hopped up.
I love the earthy quality of fresh POR.

 

[MHB]

LBC is quite correct, even Tooheys have been using Super Prides for years. Galaxy and Topaz are taking over as extract hops, higher yields, better disease resistance...

To the OP, try NZ Fuggle, surprisingly nice hop, would suit the flavour you are looking for.
Mark

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

It also reads like CUB may have there own hop yards to grow POR, hence why HPA say they are growing none but its still out there.

I love the earthy quality of fresh POR.

Back in the 90's CUB owned the company that is now HPA. This was the peak of the vertical integration craze, they also owned Barret Burston at the time.

Both have since been divested.

I can't see why they would do this and then start their own hop gardens, but hey, they've done dumber things than that.

 

[yum beer]

Doesn't make much sense to pull out the hop you use in many mainstream beers.
Maybe there is some major changes coming, perhaps they are going to go all extract and ditch the green stuff.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

They went to all extract in the mainstream beers around thirty years ago.

CUB built a supercritical CO2 hop extract plant some time in the 80s*. I believe they were one of the pioneers of this technology, CUB used to have an excellent R&D department, sadly long gone.

Isomerised hop extract is less than half the cost of using kettle hops, so the bean counters dictate that you use it as much as you can if you've already paid for the machine to make it**.

I know that in the early 90s CUB used the isomerised hop extract almost exclusively for the mainstream beers. IIRC there were a couple of exceptions, I think the short lived "Foster's Bitter" was one of them due to the very different way it was produced. I think we also retained a small kettle throw to assist with trub formation but it was inconsequential.

The product out of the brewhouse and fermenters was officially called "high gravity bitter / lager / draught" (or "normal gravity bitter / lager / draught" for plants lacking a water de-aerator) because it didn't have enough bitterness to qualify as nominated product, the bitterness was dosed to spec in the filter room.


* I'm not sure when, I wasn't working for them at the time.

** again I don't know the exact price of the plant but it was in the millions in 1980s dollars. We used to joke that if you wanted to be a millionaire for the last hour of your life you could sell the technology to the cocaine cartels.

 

[yum beer]

even if using extract they require hops to make it.
So they are still going to need POR in the ground somewhere.
So HPA are either full of shit or are growing POR only for CUB contract.

Who's growing Coopers' POR for them?
Or are we gonna see the demise of Srarkling Ale as well.....

 

[manticle]

Thirsty boy, who used to post here, gave me a couple of parting gifts once when I went to meet him to borrow some equipment.
TB has worked at cub/sab-miller in a brewing capacity since 89 I believe.

One was a small jar of carrageegan, the other a small jar (from a much larger package) of fresh pride of ringwood pellets which he'd brought home from the brewery.

I know they rely heavily on various extracts (iso, tetra, etc) and I also know a specific hop variety won't be the cause of anyone's hangover but I'd be surprised if none whatsoever has been used in the last 20-30 years.

 

[Batz]

Hopco have Australian Pride of Ringwood on their site.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Coopers have contract growers for POR.

Just because HPA are not growing it idoes not mean that others are not growing it

 

[Tilt]

Great discussion - def more interesting than the 'what can I use instead of' theme.... I've learnt something tonight.
Righto - I've got a good range of options to try, and have some NZ Fuggles in the freezer ATM so will go with that first up (glad you suggested it MHB - it looks like I can get ;some cones of this locally so will give them a try at some stage too) .
I can't see either Horizon or Cluster on the local HBSs lists so they'll have to wait until I do an overseas order.
I'm not sure I've seen Helga over here but I like the sound of it so I might have to get the relos to mule some over next time they visit - alongside a decent sized vac pack of POR!
I like the idea of doing different hopped versions of a Coopers Sparkling as its a regular house brew so will work through a few variations on a theme - and I'll try and remember to report back. Have to admit though I'm thinking it won't make such a huge difference with the hops really being the support act for a very distinctive yeast

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I like the idea of doing different hopped versions of a Coopers Sparkling

You will learn much.

Pretty much the only way you will learn about hops

 

[Meddo]

Snip

I know that in the early 90s CUB used the isomerised hop extract almost exclusively for the mainstream beers. IIRC there were a couple of exceptions, I think the short lived "Foster's Bitter" was one of them due to the very different way it was produced. I think we also retained a small kettle throw to assist with trub formation but it was inconsequential.

Snip

Sorry to go off-topic a bit but LC would you mind elaborating a bit about the Foster's Bitter? I remember snagging a couple of bottles and really enjoying them, although I was exclusively a VB drinker at the time. I'm curious about the differences you refer to, and I've never heard anyone else's opinion as to whether it was a decent drop or not either.

Thanks,

 

[Bribie G]

Another member who works at CUB also mentioned the kettle throw for break formation, and recalling that, I often do it myself if I am doing a very late hopped beer.