Style Of The Week 8/11/06 - American Wheat Or Rye

[Stuster]

I did say that this week we'd look at Kolsch but I thought there'd probably been enough on that style already after the discussion on the mash paddle thread. So I thought we could look at another category 6 beer, American wheat or rye beer. A great summer easy-drinker IMO, BJCP style 6D.

So what is your take on this one. What grains? Yeast? Do you like to stick to these guidelines or hop it up a bit more? (That one's for you Jye. :lol: ) Are there any commercial examples you can recommend? (Redback??) Any recommendations for kits 'n' bits brewers for this accessible style? :chug:

Tell us all you know so we can all brew better beer. :super:

6D. American Wheat or Rye Beer

Aroma: Low to moderate grainy wheat or rye character. Some malty sweetness is acceptable. Esters can be moderate to none, although should reflect American yeast strains. The clovey and banana aromas common to German hefeweizens are inappropriate. Hop aroma may be low to moderate, and can have either a citrusy American or a spicy or floral noble hop character. Slight sourness is optional. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Usually pale yellow to gold. Clarity may range from brilliant to hazy with yeast approximating the German hefeweizen style of beer. Big, long-lasting white head.

Flavor: Light to moderately strong grainy wheat or rye flavor, which can linger into the finish. May have a moderate malty sweetness or finish quite dry. Low to moderate hop bitterness, which sometimes lasts into the finish. Low to moderate hop flavor (citrusy American or spicy/floral noble). Esters can be moderate to none, but should not take on a German Hefeweizen character (banana). No clove phenols, although a light spiciness from wheat or rye is acceptable. May have a slight tartness in the finish. No diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body. Medium-high to high carbonation. May have a light alcohol warmth in stronger examples.

Overall Impression: Refreshing wheat or rye beers that can display more hop character and less yeast character than their German cousins.

History: Refreshing wheat or rye beers that can display more hop character and less yeast character than their German cousins.

Comments: Different variations exist, from an easy-drinking fairly sweet beer to a dry, aggressively hopped beer with a strong wheat or rye flavor. Dark versions approximating dunkelweizens are acceptable (and can have some darker, richer malt flavors in addition to the color). THE BREWER SHOULD SPECIFY IF RYE IS USED; IF NO DOMINANT GRAIN IS SPECIFIED, WHEAT WILL BE ASSUMED.

Ingredients: Clean American ale yeast, but also can be made as a lager. Large proportion of wheat malt (often 50% or more, but this isn't a legal requirement as in Germany). American or noble hops. American Rye Beers can follow the same general guidelines, substituting rye for some or all of the wheat. Other base styles (e.g., IPA, stout) with a noticeable rye character should be entered in the specialty character.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.040 - 1.055 1.008 - 1.013 15 - 30 3 - 6 4 - 5.5%

Commercial Examples: Bell's Oberon, Anchor Summer Beer, Pyramid Hefe-Weizen, Harpoon UFO Hefeweizen, Widmer Hefeweizen, Sierra Nevada Unfiltered Wheat Beer, Anderson Valley High Rollers Wheat Beer, Redhook Sunrye, O'Hanlon's Original Rye Beer

 

[Kai]

I've brewed both an american wheat and a rye once each. The rye did not turn out particularly stellar, too full-bodied and a slightly high bitterness clashing with a sourness that may have come from a faint infection. The american wheat was a lovely beer however, brewed at roughly this time last year with the intention of drinking at christmas, which it was.

Sam Wheat

OG 1.043
FG 1.010
27 IBU

50% weyermann pils
50% jw malted wheat

simcoe bittering
0.7g/L simcoe @ 10
1g/L glacier @ flameout

1010 Wyeast American Wheat

66C mash
22C ferment

Drank it quite young, it was very light and appealling with faint hints of nectarine and citrus.

 

[Stuster]

Sounds nice, Kai. I bet Glacier would work really well with this style.

Here's my recipe which did well in the state comp.

American rye

OG 1052
FG 1010
IBUs 27
Batch size 25L

2.7kg JW Export Pilsner
1.7kg Powells Wheat
1kg Weyermann Rye
100g JW Crystal wheat

Green Bullet 20g@60
Tettnanger 15g@15, 15g@5

WLP320 American wheat
Simple infusion at 64C for 60
Fermented at 20C

Not much rye flavour there, but more body than with just wheat. My Xmas case contribution has basically the same but more rye and more hops. Yet to taste it though. :unsure:

I think this is a good style for luring the unwary into the dangerous waters of homebrew and brewing. :lol:

 

[Jye]

American wheat is a great summer beer and everyone I have brew for parties or meetings has been loved :chug:

The first recipe I brewed came from The Brewing Network and is in the recipe section, from there I havent made to many changes expect try different hops.

If you keep the malt bill simple with 50/50 wheat/ale malt and maybe some crystal you cant go wrong. Choose your favourite C hop and keep the bitterness to about 20 IBUs, 20-30g at 10min and the rest of the bitterness at 60min. Ferment cool with any American yeast us-56, 001, 1056, my most recent which is for the xmas swap has been split between us-56 and Nottingham so it will be interesting to see if there is any difference. This brew was only hopped at 20 and 5 minutes with simcoe and initial samples for the primary suggest this might have been too much, but once kegged I hope to get more wheat.

Also check out this thread.

I have only brewed one rye beer and it was great, totally unique flavours like wheat and a few more will be brewed this summer.

 

[bindi]

Edit: Deleted my posts sorry guys, I won't post when " socially confused", well not this week .

 

[colinw]

Not sure if you'd call it an American wheat or rye, but I am planning a Rye Wheat of no specific style this weekend.

Tentative recipe:

'Stuck Sparge Special'
45 litres @ 1.045 SG

2.7kg Pilsner Malt (30%)
4.5kg Wheat Malt (50%)
1.35kg Rye Malt (15%)
450g Flaked Maize (5%)
+ a half a crapload of rice hulls

Why flaked maize? Why not? I love the effect it has on beer - lovely head & lace, crispness and sometimes a subtle sweetness.

Infusion Mash, 60 minutes at 66 degrees C.
48 litres pre-boil volume

90 minute boil:
70g Hallertauer Hallertau pellets (4%AA) @ 60 minutes
10g Hallertauer Hallertau pellets (4%AA) @ 10 minutes

1 whirlfloc tablet

Split into two fermenters
- half fermented with Safale K-97 (warmish ferment, 22C, gives muted weizen characteristics a bit like Erdinger)
- half fermented with Safale US-56. (cool ferment, < 18C, neutral)

OG = 1.045
Colour = 3 SRM (really pale!)
Bitterness = 18 IBUs
FG in the 1008-1010 range for 4.5-4.8% ABV

I expect the K-97 half to be somewhat German in character, the US-56 to be more like an American hefe/rye beer.

Adrian and I are brewing two batches this weekend. The other batch is a refinement of my Squires Golden clone which needs no introduction & explanation.

cheers,
Colin

 

[Voosher]

Never done one, but suddenly interested, especially now that someone's dragged me further out of my comfort zone all the way to Cologne :excl:

I just noticed the temperature range on the Wyeast 1010 (and I presume its Whitelabs equivalent)... 14-23C :excl:

That's champion stuff - right up there with your Scottish 1728.

Has anyone run it significantly through it's range and can give a first hand account of the difference between the top and bottom end?
And the middle for that matter?

 

[Weizguy]

Here's the one I brewed for fun and entered in the NSW:
It was too flat and came in 5 points below Stuster's American rye ale (3 judges combined score).

Ingredients
3.16 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 62.8 %
1.77 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 35.1 %
0.11 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 2.1 %
28.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 16.4 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (20 min) Hops 7.1 IBU
14.00 gm Amarillo pellets [8.50%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 Pkgs Safale US-56 (Fermentis #Safale US-56) Yeast-Ale

90 minute boil.
OG - 1.048 FG - 1.003 (after 4 weeks in fermentor)
23.4 IBU

Very tasty and like a mild-hopped wheaty APA.

Seth out

 

[cubbie]

Hey Brewers,

I will be doing and American wheat this weekend. A seppo who we have over playing for my baseball club has got into brewing with me and looked a recipe for his favourite America Heff from a Brewery near his home in Portland.

Anyway he gave me this recipe which I will need to adjust.

I would love some help working out the substitutes for the grain bill and making a bit more sense of the mash schedule.
Also I will be using Proculture P60 - American Wheat and instead of American Tettnanger I have German Tettnanger - are they much different


He has converted it to 24L for me.

Cheers Cubbie

Recipe (117 litres)
11.3 kg American Wheat Malt
11.3 kg American two-row barley malt
1.4 kg Munich malt
540 g 40L carmel malt
312 g American Tettnanger hops
85 g American Cascade hops

Yeasts: WLP320

Mash: 49*c for 60 minutes
Conversion: 70*c
Boil wort for 1h30m or more

Original Gravity: 11 Plato (SG: 1.044)
Terminal SG 2.1 Plato (1.008)
Color 7 SRM

24 Litre:

2.4 kg American Wheat Malt
2.4 kg American two-row barley
290 g Munich Malt
24 g 40L carmel Malt
64 g American Tettnanger hops
17.6 g American Cascade hops

 

[Stuster]

2.4 kg Wheat Malt
2.4 kg BB Pale malt/ JW Pilsner
290 g Munich Malt
24 g Caramunich I
64 g GermanTettnanger hops (how much you use really depends on what IBU level you are shooting for and what AA% the hops you have are)
18 g American Cascade hops

Looks nice to me.

 

[Maple]

Hey Brewers,

I will be doing and American wheat this weekend. A seppo who we have over playing for my baseball club has got into brewing with me and looked a recipe for his favourite America Heff from a Brewery near his home in Portland.

Anyway he gave me this recipe which I will need to adjust.

I would love some help working out the substitutes for the grain bill and making a bit more sense of the mash schedule.
Also I will be using Proculture P60 - American Wheat and instead of American Tettnanger I have German Tettnanger - are they much different


He has converted it to 24L for me.

Cheers Cubbie

Recipe (117 litres)
11.3 kg American Wheat Malt
11.3 kg American two-row barley malt
1.4 kg Munich malt
540 g 40L carmel malt
312 g American Tettnanger hops
85 g American Cascade hops

Yeasts: WLP320

Mash: 49*c for 60 minutes
Conversion: 70*c
Boil wort for 1h30m or more

Original Gravity: 11 Plato (SG: 1.044)
Terminal SG 2.1 Plato (1.008)
Color 7 SRM

24 Litre:

2.4 kg American Wheat Malt
2.4 kg American two-row barley
290 g Munich Malt
24 g 40L carmel Malt
64 g American Tettnanger hops
17.6 g American Cascade hops

I'm confused - your mashing at 49 deg? that seems like the high end of an Acid rest or even into an extended protein rest temp to me, where for that long, you could end up really f-ing up your beer, given you are using malted wheat... perhaps read chapter 14 of how to brew, or many other resourses on this very topic. As for the Proculture 60 - that's a yeast, no? how is that replacing a hop addition?

 

[reviled]

Hmmmm, American Wheat may have to be on the cards... Interesting concept, APA Wheat :icon_cheers:

 

[jonocarroll]

I'm confused - your mashing at 49 deg? that seems like the high end of an Acid rest or even into an extended protein rest temp to me, where for that long, you could end up really f-ing up your beer, given you are using malted wheat... perhaps read chapter 14 of how to brew, or many other resourses on this very topic. As for the Proculture 60 - that's a yeast, no? how is that replacing a hop addition?

Perhaps you should re-read some of the big block of text you quoted... maybe a line break will make it more obvious, that cubbie did indeed say the right thing;

Also I will be using Proculture P60 - American Wheat

and instead of American Tettnanger I have German Tettnanger - are they much different

those are two different points.

Mash: 49*c for 60 minutes
Conversion: 70*c

That looks like he missed the word rest, which would imply resting for 60 minutes, then however long for saccharification. Perhaps just waiting until the iodine test says conversion is good.

Hmm... I've been meaning to do a rye beer... perhaps one of these will make it to my to-brew list.

 

[cubbie]

those are two different points.


That looks like he missed the word rest, which would imply resting for 60 minutes, then however long for saccharification. Perhaps just waiting until the iodine test says conversion is good.

I just did a google for the recipe that he gave me and found this

Mash in at 120 degrees F (49C), hold 60 minutes. Raise to 158F (70C) for conversion. Boil wort about 1:30 plus; whirlpool. Ferment with a good ale yeast. Do not filter.
Original gravity: 11 plato

So yeah spot on QB. If I have a rest at 49c for 60min would a typical conversion at 70c still require about 60min?

Can't find anything on the IBU so I will just bitter somewhere within the style guidelines using German Tettnanger as opposed to American Tettnanger. Would assume the Tettnanger is for bittering at around 60min and the cascade for aroma/flavour at around 15min

 

[Stuster]

Anywhere from 15 to the end really, cubbie, it's up to you.

Personally, I'd just mash at 65C or so for 60 minutes.

 

[jonocarroll]

I just did a google for the recipe that he gave me and found this

Mash in at 120 degrees F (49C), hold 60 minutes. Raise to 158F (70C) for conversion. Boil wort about 1:30 plus; whirlpool. Ferment with a good ale yeast. Do not filter.
Original gravity: 11 plato

So yeah spot on QB. If I have a rest at 49c for 60min would a typical conversion at 70c still require about 60min?

There's a bit of debate about exactly how long conversion takes. If you're doing a starch test, you wait until that shows that you don't have starches anymore, though that doesn't say you get good conversion, just that the starches aren't starches, exactly.

60 mins @ 70*C should be adequate IMO.

Can't find anything on the IBU so I will just bitter somewhere within the style guidelines using German Tettnanger as opposed to American Tettnanger.

I don't know the American variety myself, but I'd be surprised if it gave a lot of difference as a 60 minute addition. I find that flavour/aroma additions are more sensitive to variety.

Would assume the Tettnanger is for bittering at around 60min and the cascade for aroma/flavour at around 15min

Cascade as a 15 minute (or less) addition gives a nice fruity/grassy taste, so if that's what you're after, then yes.

 

[jonocarroll]

Personally, I'd just mash at 65C or so for 60 minutes.

My understanding is that a protein rest is a really good idea for large proportions of wheat and rye, i.e. more than 25%. The protein rest allows beta-glucans to be broken down - if you skip this step you end up with a loaf of bread-dough in the mash tun. The danger is that you can also activate the enzyme that will break down proteins, giving you no body or head. The recommendation seems to be that a rest of 20 mins at about 40*C (104*F) will be good enough to break the beta-glucans, but not enough to destroy the proteins.

HTH.

Oh, and don't use a protein rest for a grist of only fully modified malts - with no beta-glucans around, the proteins just get destroyed.

 

[Stuster]

But, QB, wheat malt is fully modified malt. :icon_cheers:

I've certainly done single infusions on 50+% wheat malt with no issues at all.

 

[jonocarroll]

The use of rye in brewing is considered difficult as rye lacks a hull (like wheat) and contains large quantities of beta-glucans compared to other grains; these long-chain sugars can leach out during a mash, creating a sticky gelatinous gum in the mash tun, and as a result brewing with rye requires a long, thorough beta-glucanase rest.

So, it's likely a good idea, though not crucial. Depending on the mash thickness, it may not be a problem. A solid mash is certainly something to be avoided though.

 

[cubbie]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I will have to chat to the seppo more about this beer to get an idea on the use of the hops. I mash at 3L/kg with a preference for single infusion so I may just go down this path. I believe this recipe is from 94 or 96 About Beer Magazine issue, perhaps malts were less modified then and hence the long protein rest.