Style Of The Week 22/11/06 - Witbier

[warrenlw63]

Snow more a case of the adjunct load I'd say. By itself it (Wey Pils) converts at a similar efficiency to local malts.

In an ideal world you could have done a blend of Weyermann Pils and Galaxy with your wheat. Galaxy will eat it's way through bricks enzyme wise.

Warren -

 

[Weizguy]

FWIW, I recently made a batch of Witbier. I used about 50% IMC pils malt and 45% rolled wheat and 5% rolled oats, with 600g rice hulls (not used in the percentage calculation).

My extract efficiency was a mighty 70ish per cent. Maybe it's because I performed a 3 hour acid/hydration rest @ 35 C and a 30 minute protein rest @ 50C. The effect on the head retention is unknown, as I'm currently working on a yeast culture of about 3 litres to get this beast off the ground.

Hope this helps.
Les

 

[goatherder]

Why the big pitch Les? Big batch?

 

[Weizguy]

All Belgian beers need a large pitch, I have read. Have had problems with slow starts to Belgians/ Witbier with smaller starters.

This is more useful for high gravity beer, but should be scaled up from normal beer pitching rates.

Thanks for the reminder and I have done some more research, (from my brew notes and the web), as it's been a while since I last brewed a Wit. I discovered that a 1.5 litre pitch is what I used last time and it was sufficient. I may scale to 2 litres as it's a larger batch this time (about 26 litres). It may even be ready for the B&T comp.

I hope to brew a Grand Cru (of the Hoegaarden style) on the yeastcake.

(edit: swapped a word and corrected spelling)

 

[reVoxAHB]

note, Jamil's podcast has moved to: http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jam...l-Show-03-13-06

maybe a mod can revise Stusters post#1 to reflect changes?

reVox

 

[Stuster]

Thanks for that, reVox. I've changed the original post and put that in.

Wait, now I have to change all the links on all the threads. Yeah, thanks for that, reVox. :angry:

 

[reVoxAHB]

Thanks for that, reVox. I've changed the original post and put that in.

Wait, now I have to change all the links on all the threads. Yeah, thanks for that, reVox. :angry:

Hehe :lol: . I didn't check the other links or would've gladly found 'em for ya . Great thread again, btw.
Cheers.

 

[cubbie]

After reading this thread i have a few question re ingredients, what exactly they are (any alternative names) and how they should be used ( ie do they need to be crushed, how should they be mashed, what % volume of the total grist should they be)

There are a lot of comments so I would like to consolidate them a bit. I assume everything on my list is un-malted, please correct me if I am wrong.

Wheat (Raw) unmalted eg JW (is this the same as raw wheat from a health food shop?)

Un-malted whole Wheat, needs to be milled, how to mash?? %??

torrified wheat (is this also flaked wheat, rolled wheat?)

Torrified Wheat has been heat treated to break the cellular structure, allowing more rapid hydration and malt enzymes to more completely attack the starches and protein. Torrified Wheat can be used in place of raw wheat when making Belgian-style White and Wit beers. Advantages over raw wheat include normal conversion time and higher yield - thanks Ross

Does not need to be crushed, can be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

flaked wheat (not wheat flakes)

Bourghoul or Burghul or Bulgar (is this also known as cracked wheat?)

Does not need to be crushed, an be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

Crushed, steamed (precooked) wheat

Flour

I think we all know what floor is but should we be using plain ie for cakes or strong ie for bread, white, wholemeal, stroneground?

Does not need to be crushed,can be thrown in the mash and also as a small late addition to the boil, how to mash?? %??

Semolina

is the purified middlings of hard wheat. As the wheat is rolled flake off the bran and germ, and the starch (or endosperm) is cracked into coarse pieces in the process. Through sifting, these particles are separated from the bran and this is semolina

Does not need to be crushed, Can be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

any others?

 

[gap]

After reading this thread i have a few question re ingredients, what exactly they are (any alternative names) and how they should be used ( ie do they need to be crushed, how should they be mashed, what % volume of the total grist should they be)

There are a lot of comments so I would like to consolidate them a bit. I assume everything on my list is un-malted, please correct me if I am wrong.

Wheat (Raw) unmalted eg JW (is this the same as raw wheat from a health food shop?)

Un-malted whole Wheat, needs to be milled, how to mash?? %??

torrified wheat (is this also flaked wheat, rolled wheat?)

Torrified Wheat has been heat treated to break the cellular structure, allowing more rapid hydration and malt enzymes to more completely attack the starches and protein. Torrified Wheat can be used in place of raw wheat when making Belgian-style White and Wit beers. Advantages over raw wheat include normal conversion time and higher yield - thanks Ross

Does not need to be crushed, can be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

flaked wheat (not wheat flakes)

Bourghoul or Burghul or Bulgar (is this also known as cracked wheat?)

Does not need to be crushed, an be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

Crushed, steamed (precooked) wheat

Flour

I think we all know what floor is but should we be using plain ie for cakes or strong ie for bread, white, wholemeal, stroneground?

Does not need to be crushed,can be thrown in the mash and also as a small late addition to the boil, how to mash?? %??

Semolina

is the purified middlings of hard wheat. As the wheat is rolled flake off the bran and germ, and the starch (or endosperm) is cracked into coarse pieces in the process. Through sifting, these particles are separated from the bran and this is semolina

Does not need to be crushed, Can be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

any others?

All of the above are substitutes for each other and are just mashed with the base malt you use.

 

[KoNG]

After reading this thread i have a few question re ingredients, what exactly they are (any alternative names) and how they should be used ( ie do they need to be crushed, how should they be mashed, what % volume of the total grist should they be)

There are a lot of comments so I would like to consolidate them a bit. I assume everything on my list is un-malted, please correct me if I am wrong.

Wheat (Raw) unmalted eg JW (is this the same as raw wheat from a health food shop?)

Un-malted whole Wheat, needs to be milled, how to mash?? %??

torrified wheat (is this also flaked wheat, rolled wheat?)

Torrified Wheat has been heat treated to break the cellular structure, allowing more rapid hydration and malt enzymes to more completely attack the starches and protein. Torrified Wheat can be used in place of raw wheat when making Belgian-style White and Wit beers. Advantages over raw wheat include normal conversion time and higher yield - thanks Ross

Does not need to be crushed, can be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

flaked wheat (not wheat flakes)

Bourghoul or Burghul or Bulgar (is this also known as cracked wheat?)

Does not need to be crushed, an be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

Crushed, steamed (precooked) wheat

Flour

I think we all know what floor is but should we be using plain ie for cakes or strong ie for bread, white, wholemeal, stroneground?

Does not need to be crushed,can be thrown in the mash and also as a small late addition to the boil, how to mash?? %??

Semolina

is the purified middlings of hard wheat. As the wheat is rolled flake off the bran and germ, and the starch (or endosperm) is cracked into coarse pieces in the process. Through sifting, these particles are separated from the bran and this is semolina

Does not need to be crushed, Can be thrown straight into the mash, how to mash?? %??

any others?

I've tried most of those variants at some point.
Raw wheat stands out as the leader by a country mile...!
search it out, its worth the little effort.

 

[cubbie]

I was in Kakulas (Northbridge) on the weekend and noticed that they had a large sack of Wheat Grain. I assume this is raw wheat. Anyway i think it was $1.60 (or so) /kg.

 

[3G]

Just made a CAP and did a cereal mash and got 80% eff. Does anyone think a cereal mash would be beneficial for a wit.
For the CAP i steeped 2kilo polenta with 500grams boho pils malt at 50 for 20 mins then 66 for 30 mins then boiled for 20 mins then added back to the main mash to bring it up from 50 degrees to 64 degrees.

 

[therook]

Doing my first Belgian Wit

Decided to post here and also in the "What are you brewing thread "

3.0kg Galaxy
2.0 Unmalted Wheat
350gm Rolled Oats
4 plugs Saaz 60 minutes
10 grams tettnanger 15 minutes
17 grams Corriander 10 minutes
8 grams Corriander 0 minutes
17 grams Orange Peel 20 minutes
18 grams orange Peel 0 minutes

IBU's - 14.2

OG - 1.045
FG - 1.010

Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale

Mashed at 65c for 90 minutes

Fermented 25c

Thoughts ???????????????????????????

Warren has talked me into dumping a Saison onto the yeast cake

Rook

 

[KoNG]

I was in Kakulas (Northbridge) on the weekend and noticed that they had a large sack of Wheat Grain. I assume this is raw wheat. Anyway i think it was $1.60 (or so) /kg.

Cubbie, i'd assume raw wheat for sure..... they have the same thing at Swansea Street Markets in Vic Park.
I've used it for a couple of Wits.

Doing my first Belgian Wit

Decided to post here and also in the "What are you brewing thread "

3.0kg Galaxy
2.0 Unmalted Wheat
350gm Rolled Oats
4 plugs Saaz 60 minutes
10 grams tettnanger 15 minutes
17 grams Corriander 10 minutes
8 grams Corriander 0 minutes
17 grams Orange Peel 20 minutes
18 grams orange Peel 0 minutes

IBU's - 14.2

OG - 1.045
FG - 1.010

Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale

Mashed at 65c for 90 minutes

Fermented 25c

Thoughts ???????????????????????????

Warren has talked me into dumping a Saison onto the yeast cake

Rook

Looks good Rookie.
Myself, i'm skeptical of the orange peel addition. I've tried several variants and nothing seems to give anything desired/required (just me of course).
i reckon the right hops these days allow you to brew something better without the need for the peel.
Coriander on the other hand is definitely unique... make sure its indian..!
Not that crap Wazza uses... pffft

OuT
KoNG

 

[KoNG]

You kegged yet Rook...??
how is it...???

 

[therook]

You kegged yet Rook...??
how is it...???

Sorry i didn't get back to you Kong.....

This beer turned out sensational....very Hoegaardenish

Will be using the Forbidden Fruit yeast many more times.

Wazza got the unmalted wheat for me and this is deffinately the key to this beer along with the spices....thanks Wazza

also

Thanks Chad for help with the Corriander and Orange peel quantities

Rook

 

[Fourstar]

Sorry i didn't get back to you Kong.....
This beer turned out sensational....very Hoegaardenish
Will be using the Forbidden Fruit yeast many more times.
Wazza got the unmalted wheat for me and this is deffinately the key to this beer along with the spices....thanks Wazza
also
Thanks Chad for help with the Corriander and Orange peel quantities
Rook

Looks like a good recipe Rooky! My wit is ready to be pitched on as soon as i pull my starter off the stirplate. I went the lazy method with malted wheat as the last witbier i had (in Veitnam) was made with JW malted wheat 50:50 w/pilsner. It was sensational so i'll try my luck with malted wheat and 10% oats this round and replicate the recipe with unmalted in the future for a purist true witbier! B)

How does the farmhouse yeast stand up to the witbier? Turn it more like a saison?

 

[therook]

Looks like a good recipe Rooky! My wit is ready to be pitched on as soon as i pull my starter off the stirplate. I went the lazy method with malted wheat as the last witbier i had (in Veitnam) was made with JW malted wheat 50:50 w/pilsner. It was sensational so i'll try my luck with malted wheat and 10% oats this round and replicate the recipe with unmalted in the future for a purist true witbier! B)

How does the farmhouse yeast stand up to the witbier? Turn it more like a saison?

4star, I haven't tried the witbier yeast but the taste of the resultant beer was so close to Hoegaarden it wasn't funny and the unmalted wheat gave it a nice tartiness.

I have a spare slant of Forbidden Fruit if you want one

send me a PM if you do

Rook

 

[Tony]

I tried an interesting beer the other day........ A Whitbier!

It was interesting because its not on the shelves yet but should be some time next year.

AFAIK, it will be called Hahn White and will be marketed to be drank with a wedge of orange.

Its a bit cloudy, has a nice mouthfeel but has been spiced with "spice flavoring" and tastes a bit "cheap perfumey" if you know what i mean.

So to impress my dad who gave me the blind tasting (here...... drink that and tell me what it is), im going to make a Wit. I have some torified wheat on the way, a pack of forbidden fruit yeast, and the will to do better!

I read through almost all of this thread last night..... brought back memories of my "F" key not working, the coriander seed i grew (which i dropped on the concrete in its glass jar and lost all of it) and thismorning read the bit saying weyermann pilsner wont convert lots of torrified wheat very well

As i only have weyermann pils, i may have to just up the rice gulla and let it circ through the HERMS and monitor the mash gravity untill it stops converting. Hopefully this will work ok but i am planning on downgrading my usual efficiency of 80% to more like 65 or 70% for this beer.

fingers crossed hey

 

[Tony]

Going to have a crack at my first Wit on sunday

The forbidden fruit yeast is an animal and finnished the starter in a little over 24 hrs, and i have some good pilsner malt for the job now thanks to the generous efforts of a fellow AHB'er

The only thing im nervous about is the spice additions. Im making a 54 liter batch and after a lot of reading it seems less is more when spicing this style up. I have some great dried orange peel and indian coriander, and im thinking one 10 min addition in the boil of about 20g of each., maybe 15 g of the orange as i dont want it to dominate.

Also..... will uncle tobys qiuck oats be ok for this style?