stout with carafa spec T3 substituting roast barley

[butisitart]

just curious, and will probably try at least a watered down version of this, but....
my favourite simple stout is the very simple but effective
4kg pale ale
1kg roast barley
1kg flaked barley

and go for it. then leave for at least 4 mnths before even thinking about having a nudge.

am thinking about substituting roast barley in part or in full for carafa special T3.
has the sam ebc. carafa is de-husked roast and malted. roast barley is husked and unmalted.
recommended max on T3 is 5% but roast barley has no recommended level on my lhbs site. (my commonly used recipe uses around 18% roast barley)

wondering if anybody has taken the plunge and at what ratio if it wasn't a clean swap

my sense is that you would trade over to a smoother, slightly less bitter flavour on some ratio of T3.

 

[dannymars]

Wow, that's a ***** tonne of roast barley.... I'd be worried about ashey, asringent flavours at that level... Most I've used is around 1-2%

 

[warra48]

Holy crap, 1 kg Roast Barley takes it wwaaaayyyy out of anything I'd even want to think of drinking. I'm with dannymars.

It's your beer, so if you enjoy burnt scorched earth offerings to the bushfire gods, you do as you wish.

 

[TheWiggman]

My recent dry stout had 500g of roast barley in a 23l batch, spot on for a stout if you ask me. Doubling it isn't mucking around but if butisitart likes it, he/she likes it.
Roast barley and carafa differ like you say in that carafa is malted. Roast barley however is the signature malt for a stout, and could be argued what makes a stout a stout. Carafa III will lend a different flavour that is described as 'smoother' than other roasts. Maybe you'll get a very dark beer that's a mix between a stout and porter? I wouldn't do it personally, I'd start by making a portion of carafa in the recipe to say 700g roast barley, 300g carafa and see what this lends to be the beer. If you like it, go from there.

 

[gap]

Here is the Wheeler recipe for Guinness Extra Stout

Ale Malt 80%
Flaked Barley 10%
Roast Barley 10%

I use this recipe and do not have any of the "ashey, asringent flavours" described above.

 

[butisitart]

just checked my beersmith - cos i wrote above off the top of my head when my head were somewhere else. 1kg was on a 46L batch and there was 6kg pale.
so it ran at around 13% or about 500g (with equal rolled barley) for 23L (same as wiggmans).
and yep - that makes a sensational dry stout. and nah - you're right - a whole kilo in 23L might implode my thyroid gland or something.
so yeah - toning down to wiggman's suggestion i might go 250g of roast barley and 250g T2 or T3 as a one off to see how it goes. should at least make for an interesting hybrid.

 

[Midnight Brew]

My understanding was that carafa special is dehusked chocolate malt. May be interchangeable in terms of colour but not flavour.

 

[butisitart]

My understanding was that carafa special is dehusked chocolate malt. May be interchangeable in terms of colour but not flavour.

different flavour yes, that's what i were looking at. took the wiggman's advice and went

today mashed :
3kg maris otter
1kg carapils
1kg flaked barley
500g roast barley
200g carafa special T1
20g first gold
15g magnum
10g fuggles all at 90mins, total IBU 41
irish ale wyeast
5.2 ph stabiliser into wort

did a 45C 15min glucan rest on flaked barley only, then went to 68C and added the rest.

love my standard dry irish stout, but yeah - this should be an interesting diversion. i'll either make it again or i won't. the carapils is also a serious bump from the usual 0-250g.

 

[Bribie G]

Kilo of roast barley is the man's stout.

Warra, I used to use around 400g but at a brew day at Bradsbrew's at Kallangur he whacked in a kilo.

No mercy, take it all the way.

I did a stout brew or two with a kilo and it worked perfectly. I won a State Comp on about 800g and sent it on to the Nats, but Manticle on a table of 3 judges (prick ) voted me down as being a bit to roasty , otherwise I'd have picked up second best dry stout in the Nation.

Prick

 

[manticle]

500g in a single batch is yum. Espresso.

 

[manticle]

Carafa will be different. I'd suggest less black coffee type flavours.

 

[butisitart]

it's banging away in the fermenter with an expected 6% ish alcohol, so i'll report later. it may lean to a bockish flavour, don't know, wait and see.

 

[manticle]

Just found out moo brew seasonal stout uses carafa, no black, no rb.
Lovely beer.

 

[welly2]

My oatmeal stout that is currently fermenting at the moment has 300g of Carafa Spec II in it and 300g of Roasted Barley. From my initial tasting, it's tasting pretty good but I think next time I'd up both or one of those as there's definitely the roasty, coffee notes but it's not full on. It's probably what I would describe, if I was being a bit un-PC, as a girl's stout. I shall enjoy it all the same.

 

[butisitart]

My oatmeal stout that is currently fermenting at the moment has 300g of Carafa Spec II in it and 300g of Roasted Barley. From my initial tasting, it's tasting pretty good but I think next time I'd up both or one of those as there's definitely the roasty, coffee notes but it's not full on. It's probably what I would describe, if I was being a bit un-PC, as a girl's stout. I shall enjoy it all the same.

my missus is a girl. she doesn't go for the irish dry, so maybe i'm on a winner.
my initial were to look for a germanic smooth overlay on the stout, so see what happens. never intended to replace my beloved dry irish, but to increase my repertoire.
and i note manticle's comments above

 

[butisitart]

currently sipping and pondering a 5.8% 330ml taster on the recipe as above, 2 weeks in the bottle, so still pretty green. i'm pretty impressed, actually.
minus a bit of the roast barley roast flavour and replaced, in part, with a warmish bock thing. nice combo. no dominating of hop flavour. it'll take another 6 weeks before a proper go and the carapils hasn't kicked in yet, but all the signs are pretty encouraging for a nice smooth winter drink. i'd have to run with welly2's appraisal above.
as i near the end of the glass, it's a warming smooth one. :icon_cheers:

worth keeping on the repertoire?? appears a good possibility. will it replaced the irish dry?? nah. different beer.

 

[manticle]

Kilo of roast barley is the man's stout.

Warra, I used to use around 400g but at a brew day at Bradsbrew's at Kallangur he whacked in a kilo.

No mercy, take it all the way.

I did a stout brew or two with a kilo and it worked perfectly. I won a State Comp on about 800g and sent it on to the Nats, but Manticle on a table of 3 judges (prick ) voted me down as being a bit to roasty , otherwise I'd have picked up second best dry stout in the Nation.

Prick

I just saw this.
I have never judged Nats.

 

[technobabble66]

Then it's even more impressive you voted Bribie down.
Well done!!
[emoji185][emoji6]

 

[bradmccoy]

today mashed :
3kg maris otter
1kg carapils
1kg flaked barley
500g roast barley
200g carafa special T1
20g first gold
15g magnum
10g fuggles all at 90mins, total IBU 41
irish ale wyeast
5.2 ph stabiliser into wort

How did this go? 1kg of carapils seems like a lot to me. Almost 20% in this bill?