Sterilize Or Sanitise

[Pete2501]

cant say I've seen one pouring a kettle of boiling water over one either..

It's true. The hospital I work at have large oven bays for trays of equipment that get sterilised. It's all done with heat/water/pressure. I've been in there a few times, scrubs and all to fix up some wireless scanners.

Edit: typo

 

[RetsamHsam]

A couple of my fermenters picked up an infection and I was thinking about chucking them as I couldn't get rid of it..

My last ditch effort was to fill it to the top with boiling water and napi-san, rinse it, and then up end it over the top of a 19L stock pot which was boiling away ontop of my rambo burner, left it there for 5 or so minutes.. It looks like this has killed whatever was in there and I think I will use the steam step as standard practice from now on, it is too easy!!

 

[warra48]

Hey....does anyone use the Morgans's no-rinse sanitiser. I think it is a Hydrogen peroxide based sanitiser?

Is that what starsan or Idophor uses??

Never used no-rinse before, but I said I would give it a go, never had a problem either, anyway

I now have acquired a bottle of Morgans no-rinse and it is sitting on the shelf looking at me and I am wondering what to do with it

eg put it in a spray bottle etc....I have a bottle tree with a rinser/squirter thingy on top of it...should I put the no-rinse stuff in that...at the right proportions of course and use that to no-rinse my bottles?? Are these rinser/squirter thingies good?

rendo /quote]


The Morgan's stuff is hydrogen peroxide based, but has some silver ions added for stability.
It works fine, and is a no rinse sanitiser.
The only downside is that it is very expensive for what you get.

A cheaper option is to buy hydrogen peroxide from your chemist, and mix it in the same proportions as the Morgan's one.

The best and most economical options for a no rinse sanitiser is either Iodophor or Starsan. A bottle lasts for ages, and the mixing ration is much smaller than for hydrogen peroxide.

Haven't used a bottle rinser thingy, so can't comment on what they're like to use.

 

[stuart13]

I just sponge out the carp from the krausen & the bottom, give it a good looking over to make sure there's no specks in there ...

That's all I have ever done - then chuck a litre or two of sodium met solution in. Swirl it around and leave it in there until I am ready to ferment again. A quick rinse with some cold water and it's good to go. This has worked for me for the better part of twenty years.

I know some of you are almost violently opposed to the use of sodium met, but do whatever works for YOU...

 

[beers]

It's true. The hospital I work at have large oven bays for trays of equipment that get sterilised.

Tell them they're wasting their money on all that fancy equipment. Imagine how much money they could save using a kettle & a plastic drum.

 

[Batz]

The best and most economical options for a no rinse sanitiser is either Iodophor or Starsan. A bottle lasts for ages, and the mixing ration is much smaller than for hydrogen peroxide.

This is what I use.

If you have a few brewer mates that want to split some sanitizer this is a good option.



Eliminate is used in the dairy industry and available in 20lt containers for around $200.00
It's phosphoric acid and mixed at a rate of 10ml to 5 lt.

So split it with four others, you have 5 lt for $50.00 that will make 2500 lt of sanitizer, and it can be reused several times. It should last you a week or three.
Yes it's a no rinse as well.

Batz

 

[argon]

Use all the chemicals you want ... but heat works. 120C and pressure, KILL 'EM ALL.

When you are getting surgery - do you see the surgeon spraying his scalpal with starsan?

Agreed heat does work and work really well. However, unless youre using a Flash Steriliser that runs between 121C and 134C for a cycle of 10 to 15 mins, or a Rack Steam sterilizer, again at over 121C for 20 mins, then hermetically sealing all equipment prior to use in a controlled, body protected and HEPA filtered, positive pressured, conditioned space with high level supply and low level exhaust, then the comparison with hospital equipment sterilization is a little off.

Im sure the procedure of pouring in a couple of litres of water that was boiling into the fermenter will get rid of most things that would harbour in their.

Personally, understanding how things are properly, sterilised in a health facility, I feel that a chemical solution to sanitise is much more effective defense against nasties hiding on the surface of homebrew gear.

 

[LLoyd]

This is what I use.

If you have a few brewer mates that want to split some sanitizer this is a good option.

View attachment 36138

Eliminate is used in the dairy industry and available in 20lt containers for around $200.00
It's phosphoric acid and mixed at a rate of 10ml to 5 lt.

So split it with four others, you have 5 lt for $50.00 that will make 2500 lt of sanitizer, and it can be reused several times. It should last you a week or three.
Yes it's a no rinse as well.

Batz

You don't happen to have an MSDS for that gear do you Batz?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

It's true. The hospital I work at have large oven bays for trays of equipment that get sterilised. It's all done with heat/water/pressure. I've been in there a few times, scrubs and all to fix up some wireless scanners.

Edit: typo

A jug of boiling water does not an autoclave make - hot/boiling water can be an effective sanitiser for brewing... but the contact times and effort to ensure thorough coverage... well, lets just say I would consider Nick's method to be better than nothing... but far from anything I would use or recommend.

A nice no-rinse sanitiser like iodophor or starsan.. leave the surfaces wet with the saitiser. Safe as houses.

TB

 

[Nick JD]

I'm sure the procedure of pouring in a couple of litres of water that "was" boiling into the fermenter will get rid of most things that would harbour in their.

It's true.

And everyone else, go and read my post again. I wasn't suggesting that I autoclave my fermenter. Get real.

What I was saying is that the build up of pressure and steam when boiling water is put into a nearly closed (just the bung hole with a steam jet shooting out) container and shaken is more an enough to SANITIZE it.

I'm not saying people should use my technique, never did. But NOTHING that will harm my brews can live through that boiling water and steam. I can assure you that the steam ripping out the bung hole is at 100C.

Some of you must understand that 95C water when shaken in a contained vessel will not stay at 95C, right? And anyway, 75C for a few minutes will sanitize you my have heard of a chap called Dr. Pasteur...

Again - it works. Again I'm not trying to tell you to used this method. But again, it works.

Google "Flash Pasteurization" if you are at all interested.

all we need to do here is reduce the number of viable pathogens so they are unlikely to cause infection.

 

[Halfbeak]

I just sponge out the carp from the krausen & the bottom, give it a good looking over to make sure there's no specks in there & starsan it.

What are you doing with fish in your beer?

 

[Batz]

You don't happen to have an MSDS for that gear do you Batz?

MSDS on their website

http://www.dasco.com.au/content.cfm?content=31#

 

[argon]

snip...
I'm not saying people should use my technique, never did. But NOTHING that will harm my brews can live through that boiling water and steam. I can assure you that the steam ripping out the bung hole is at 100C.

Some of you must understand that 95C water when shaken in a contained vessel will not stay at 95C, right?... Snip

completly agree Nick.. enough water at near to boiling in the vessel when agitated will release enough energy to cause a hell of a lot of steam to be released. And as we all know steam is well ebove 100C. Brave man to give that fermenter a shake with the ultra hot water and steam flying out.

If anyone doubts this happens... Grab a plastic sporst drink bottle, fill it with a little bit of water.... Say 150mL put the lid on and give it a shake. Ensure the lid is open (that is the little mouthpiece... Dunno what it's called) you'll see steam start to billow out. And as we know that means the conditions in the bottle are above 100C.

Of course I only know this really by accident and lost a fair bit of skin off my knuckles. Added too much water into the bottle, shot the lid off and hit the ceiling and boiling water over my hands. Pretty sure that'd knock out some nasties.

 

[Hatchy]

Are they pretty sturdy? I've seen a mate pop them. I gave it a shot but was conccerned about breaking it.

Edit: I was replying to the post about pulling taps apart. I thought I'd quoted it

 

[manticle]

I just sponge out the carp

If you've had carp in your brew then you should stop using murray River water.

@Nick - you did bring up the comparison with sterilising medical instruments so expect it's going to get picked apart. Yes heat kills many pathogens but it was a very average analogy.

 

[Mobbee007]

What are you doing with fish in your beer?

LMFAO!!

 

[rude]

Doogiechap put me onto Huwa-san T50 Hydrogen Peroxide with silver ions for my no rinse sanitiser.

What I like about it is it turns into water & oxygen no need to use hot water.

About $50 for 5 litres easy to use 5ml for 500ml of water.

Since using a no rinse sanitiser my brewing as been made real easy.

 

[Desert Brewer]

Im with Batz, Phosphoric Acid based- no rinse sanitizers are the go - no boiling water required. The product i use needs 3ml per litre of H2O. Rinse all crud out of fermenter or bottlles with a mild napisan solution - give final rinse, shake, wipe down with sanitizer - leave to dry in the sun - (which we have plenty of in Alice Springs) - when completly dried there is no sign of any residue on my long necks, so i will assume the same for my fermentation and other gear - it is hard to tell as it opaque in colour.

Sanitisation or sterilisation as we all know is top priorty - i want something that works, thats easy to use , requires minimal time input and something with no residue, i realise that because i cant see it dosent mean its not there- the product and process i have works for me. Unless someone can give good reason why not to use a Phoporic Acid based sanitizer - i will continue to do so, i dont tip any down the sink or drain - i have a spot in the backyard that cops it all.

The fella that covers his sanitized bottles with glad wrap - have you ever had any problems that? I was of the impression that alfoil was the way to go. I generally sanitize my bottles on the day - but there has been the odd occasion where i have sanitized extra and covered the tops with alfoil - it was a bit fiddly and time consuming, but was great to not worry about sanitizing on the next bottling day.

DB

 

[Hatchy]

I haven't had a problem with the glad wrap & hate having to sanitise on bottling day. I'll try to remember to post here if I have an infected bottle but I can't see how it could be a problem.

Thanks for all of the carp jokes. I got in the habit of deliberately misspelling crap so it's more friendly for work email. I now feel like an idiot.

 

[EK]

To the people that use StarSan: on the container it says you can make up a spray bottle and use it to sanitise. I am wondering if many people do it this way and if so, how long can you leave StarSan in a spray bottle in order for it to be effective?

Also do you guys use StarSan for bottle sanitation? If so, how? Do you spray the bottles or immerse them?

:icon_cheers:
EK