Starting Wyeast

[Brewer_010]

To add to this, I'm not sure if a large amount in a stubbie is a good idea anyway in case of continued fermentation (you'll end up with exploding yeast bottles).
My cultures usually have around 2-5mm worth of sediment at the bottom of each stubbie. These kick off pretty smartly with a stepped-up starter solution a few days before pitching.
Just chill, they'll be fine.

 

[amita]

hi All,
I am about to start my Hoegaarden( partial) and will be using Wyeast belgian wit 3944.
I want to make a starter and harvest as described in this (lenghty) topic but I can only find the info that people use DME.
I have some liquid wheat malt that I would like to use,
question:
can I use the LWM for my starter and how much do I use per liter of water, same as DME??100 ml to 1 liter of water.

I plan to add the LWM to boiling water and boil for 10 to sterilise and proceed according to the above instructions.
can anybody help me out here or should I go to the HBS and get some DME?

thanks, amita

 

[Ross]

hi All,
I am about to start my Hoegaarden( partial) and will be using Wyeast belgian wit 3944.
I want to make a starter and harvest as described in this (lenghty) topic but I can only find the info that people use DME.
I have some liquid wheat malt that I would like to use,
question:
can I use the LWM for my starter and how much do I use per liter of water, same as DME??100 ml to 1 liter of water.

I plan to add the LWM to boiling water and boil for 10 to sterilise and proceed according to the above instructions.
can anybody help me out here or should I go to the HBS and get some DME?

thanks, amita

LME contains 20% water, so in theory just add 20% more eg 120ml. Either way it will make little difference.
No need to go shooting off to the HBS

cheers Ross

 

[amita]

LME contains 20% water, so in theory just add 20% more eg 120ml. Either way it will make little difference.
No need to go shooting off to the HBS

cheers Ross

thanks Ross, ; will put the kettle on and get it on the way
cheers amita

 

[june]

Oh,this looks not bad!I say ,yeah,it's very well!

 

[bierbaron]

g,day guys.
im new to liquid yeast so, im just wondering what sort of activity i should see in a starter as the past few i have made havent foamed up that much. i split my packs into 4-5 vials and use one of those plus some water and sugar to make up 100-200 ml of liquid. i make the starter 2-3 days ahead of the brewday.

the last two batches i did didnt see much action so i dumped some packet yeast to kick them off.

so the question is, will a starter show normal signs of fermentation? am i doing something wrong????

 

[Stuster]

g,day guys.
im new to liquid yeast so, im just wondering what sort of activity i should see in a starter as the past few i have made havent foamed up that much. i split my packs into 4-5 vials and use one of those plus some water and sugar to make up 100-200 ml of liquid. i make the starter 2-3 days ahead of the brewday.

the last two batches i did didnt see much action so i dumped some packet yeast to kick them off.

so the question is, will a starter show normal signs of fermentation? am i doing something wrong????

A starter should show sign of normal fermentation, foaming, bubbles etc. Sounds like you might not have used malt. Did you use some malt, or just sugar? Growing little organisms need more than sugar (whatever my kids say). And did you boil up the starter with the malt and then cool it down, then add the yeast? If you are splitting up your pack like this, you'll probably be best to start with a 1L of starter. The ratio is 100g malt extract to 1L water. Boil for 15 minutes, cool quickly, then pitch yeast. 1L will do, but optimally for a 23L batch you might need a 2L starter, so once the first starter is going you can step it up to 2L (depends on the gravity of course).

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

g,day guys.
im new to liquid yeast so, im just wondering what sort of activity i should see in a starter as the past few i have made havent foamed up that much. i split my packs into 4-5 vials and use one of those plus some water and sugar to make up 100-200 ml of liquid. i make the starter 2-3 days ahead of the brewday.

the last two batches i did didnt see much action so i dumped some packet yeast to kick them off.

so the question is, will a starter show normal signs of fermentation? am i doing something wrong????

Sugar ? There is nothing in sugar in the way of nutrients for the yeast to increase its bio mass which is what you are aiming to do.If you are going to split the packs you should be building your starters with malt derived wort.Adding a Wyeast nutrient also aids in the building of a healthy starter.You would want more than 200ml of starter for a 20 L brew.I would suggest about 2 L of healthy viable yeast.I not unusual to see no action taking place but if you have set your starter up well it will be working.PM me and I will help you out.Got to go for dinner!
GB

 

[Darren]

Hey bier baron,

Just for starters, what part of the "smack pack" are you saving? or are you using Whitelabs vials?

cheers


Darren

EDIT: Oh ****, just noticed the thread was 8 pages long

 

[bierbaron]

ok, i use wyeast, so i split the yeast up (unsmacked) and then put the nutrient from the little plastic package into seperate vials as well. i usually use sugar, bit of water and some of the nutrient and yeast of course.
i guess my ratios are way off. will that have an impact?
but i thought because i am using a smaller amount of yeast (25-30 ml) i needed to make a small starter and build it up gradually??
anyways, i will get some DME tonight and try the 100g to i litre ratio.

cheers :beer:

 

[therook]

ok, i use wyeast, so i split the yeast up (unsmacked) and then put the nutrient from the little plastic package into seperate vials as well. i usually use sugar, bit of water and some of the nutrient and yeast of course.
i guess my ratios are way off. will that have an impact?
but i thought because i am using a smaller amount of yeast (25-30 ml) i needed to make a small starter and build it up gradually??
anyways, i will get some DME tonight and try the 100g to i litre ratio.

cheers :beer:

bierbaron,

Have a look at this excellent post by Batz.

LINK

Rook

 

[Screwtop]

Using the search function can be a handy thing.

 

[Stuster]

bierbaron,

Have a look at this excellent post by Batz.

LINK

Rook

That one's a long thread I think, which Batz started a while ago. Wonder if there have been any recent replies to it.

Bierbaron, yes you can start small. There should be enough in there to start with a 500ml starter though (50g DME) and step it up from there. If it's yeast you've kept for a while, the 200ml starter first off would be better.

 

[brettprevans]

I never really got the 'step up' method. Does chucking the yeast into a 1L starter of wort shock it? if not why start at 500ml then step up to 1L then 2L. why not just go the whole hog?

 

[bierbaron]

That one's a long thread I think, which Batz started a while ago. Wonder if there have been any recent replies to it.

Bierbaron, yes you can start small. There should be enough in there to start with a 500ml starter though (50g DME) and step it up from there. If it's yeast you've kept for a while, the 200ml starter first off would be better.

I did read batz's guide once or twice and i thought it didnt exactly apply to what i was trying to do? the yeast isnt that old.(a few months?)
what i was trying to say earlier, if i put too many fermentables in the starter, will it inhibit the yeast from starting their cycle? i think that might be the problem.

oh yea sorry bout bein a pain in the arse

 

[Stuster]

CM, the issue is not that it'll be a problem for the yeast. They'll grow whatever size medium you put them into. The issue is other wee beasties that will be present whatever you do. The bigger the starter, the ratio of yeast to bacteria etc will be higher. Here are a couple of quotes from learned members of the forum that explain it better than I could.

The first is stepping up the wort. One of the main reasons is so that the yeast will outnumber the bacteria in the wort and will dominate. If you pitch x amount of yeast into 50ml vs the same amount into 1 litres, then in 50ml they will a lerger percentage of the organisms in the beer.

The second is re-using yeast. Yeast will mutate over successive generations and also the bacterial and wild yeast count will increase over time. Its safer to replace the yeast after a few generations rather than risk infection and/or off flavours.

Cheers
Pedro

Sterile means there are no bacteria, wild yeasts or spores. This is achieved by putting the sample in a pressure cooker or autoclave. Boiling does not kill all spores.

For making up starters, you can boil wort for 20-30 minutes, cool, and use straight away.

Also, bacteria and wild yeasts muliply at about 10 times that of our brewing yeast. So if you start off with a small infection and a small amount of yeast, the unwanted yeast or bacteria quickly multiply to levels that are detectable in our beers.

Brewing yeast does change the conditions to be unfavourable to bacteria. pH decreases, alcohol is produced and the wort becomes anearobic (no oxygen.) All of these limit the growth of some sorts of bacteria. Be aware that after fermentation, there is alcohol and long chain sugars in your beers, both of which are high energy sources to some bacteria.

Too many fermentables will inhibit growth. That's why you are aiming for a starter wort gravity of 1030-1040 which the 100g:1L ratio should give you. No malt will mean no or little healthy growth as the nutrients the yeast need for growth will not be present.

 

[brettprevans]

ahhhhhh ic said the blind brewer. I knew about the wort gravity. but hadnt read anything anour the bacteria. makes sense. kool. Will use step up method. cherrs Stuster

 

[Stuster]

CM, just to clarify, if you are using a whole pack of yeast, starting it up in 2L of starter wort is fine. But if you were splitting the yeast like bierbaron, using old yeast, or starting from a slant or a small amount of yeast, stepping up is very important.

 

[Sammus]

I never really got the 'step up' method. Does chucking the yeast into a 1L starter of wort shock it? if not why start at 500ml then step up to 1L then 2L. why not just go the whole hog?

Something to do with the amount of available food for the yeast compared to the number of yeast. If you have SFA yeast cells swimming in litres and litres of nutritious wort, they get lazy. Where as if you have heaps of yeast in not much wort, they'll all fighting for a bit. Apparently the latter one is better for reproduction, to an extent...I think :unsure: lol

 

[Bribie G]

BUMP

Eagerly awaiting the arrival of my Wyeast West Yorkshire Bitter and other bits from Ross to do a partial mash Penn-9 bitter. As I mentioned on a previous thread I have six urine sample bottles I bought from the chemist (new not used :lol: ) and intend to run off six batches, clingwrap them and store them in the fridge for subsequent brews. Would I be best to:

• a. Run up a big starter of the Wyeast using wort stepping, pitch half into my Penn-9 and split the rest among the bottles (after washing with sterilised water etc etc)
• b. Do a 'normal' starter, pitch it and derive my six samples from the trub left at the end of the first brew?

I'm tending to 'b' but would like to get as much usage out of my twelve bucks as possible.

PS I'm not a total tightarse, for example I regularly use my Notto yeast three times but regularly reorder from Ross as I appreciate that I don't want to push my luck.

 

[mckenry]

BUMP

Eagerly awaiting the arrival of my Wyeast West Yorkshire Bitter and other bits from Ross to do a partial mash Penn-9 bitter. As I mentioned on a previous thread I have six urine sample bottles I bought from the chemist (new not used :lol: ) and intend to run off six batches, clingwrap them and store them in the fridge for subsequent brews. Would I be best to:

• a. Run up a big starter of the Wyeast using wort stepping, pitch half into my Penn-9 and split the rest among the bottles (after washing with sterilised water etc etc)
• b. Do a 'normal' starter, pitch it and derive my six samples from the trub left at the end of the first brew?

I'm tending to 'b' but would like to get as much usage out of my twelve bucks as possible.

I do A. I like to split a new packet 4 ways and therefore make 5 batches from the original strain. Good value & no washing yeast etc etc.

 

[buttersd70]

Being a tight arse has nothing to do with wanting t save this one, bribie. Who knows when it will be on offer again? I started slanting specifically because of this yeast

My thought would be to go with a combo of your options. Half the pack into a starter and then pitched, the other half of the pack split into the jars. That way, you have a couple of gen 0 instead of only 1. And save the trub for splitting as well.

 

[cdbrown]

OK - smacked a Dec 08 wyeast 3068 last night after bringing it up to around 20C. Left overnight and the pack was nice and puffy when I checked it this morning before heading to work. I'd like to get some small starters going so want to check the procedure to ensure I have it right. Followed the instructions on the first page (wish the pics were still there) - is this still the best way?

Boil up 150g of LDME in 1.5L water for 15mins. Chill it down to 20C and then put it in a sterilised container. Pour in the contents of the smacked pack. Cap and shake.

So eventually it will kick off again - does it matter when the step up occurs? I'll be making the starter tonight so based on all the brews so far, yeast will be very active by the following morning, will it be OK to wait until the evening before stepping up, should I wait longer?

It says to step up with another 1.5L wort which can be done a few times and therefore requiring a larger vessel to hold it in. Would it be possible that prior to the step up - split the starter into 2 PETs and then pour half the wort into each? Otherwise I guess I'll need to use the fermenter as that's all I have larger than 2L.

How can you tell when the activity is nearly stopped? Using just the initial step up to 1.5L - putting 300ml into stubbies will give 5 starters from this batch.

Cheers
-cdbrown

 

[Lachlan]

Make sure you have plenty of head space for that 3068, it goes mental. :icon_cheers:

 

[cubbie]

OK - smacked a Dec 08 wyeast 3068 last night after bringing it up to around 20C. Left overnight and the pack was nice and puffy when I checked it this morning before heading to work. I'd like to get some small starters going so want to check the procedure to ensure I have it right. Followed the instructions on the first page (wish the pics were still there) - is this still the best way?

Boil up 150g of LDME in 1.5L water for 15mins. Chill it down to 20C and then put it in a sterilised container. Pour in the contents of the smacked pack. Cap and shake.

So eventually it will kick off again - does it matter when the step up occurs? I'll be making the starter tonight so based on all the brews so far, yeast will be very active by the following morning, will it be OK to wait until the evening before stepping up, should I wait longer?

It says to step up with another 1.5L wort which can be done a few times and therefore requiring a larger vessel to hold it in. Would it be possible that prior to the step up - split the starter into 2 PETs and then pour half the wort into each? Otherwise I guess I'll need to use the fermenter as that's all I have larger than 2L.

How can you tell when the activity is nearly stopped? Using just the initial step up to 1.5L - putting 300ml into stubbies will give 5 starters from this batch.

Cheers
-cdbrown

I only ever make a 1.5L starter and that seems to be about right for my brews (all around the 21L mark). Never do a step up. In saying that I can not see a problem splitting the starter in two bottles and then pouring them both off into your brew (decant most the beer off and just pour out the slurry).

 

[NeilArge]

I only ever make a 1.5L starter and that seems to be about right for my brews (all around the 21L mark). Never do a step up. In saying that I can not see a problem splitting the starter in two bottles and then pouring them both off into your brew (decant most the beer off and just pour out the slurry).

I took a leftover slurry of WY1318 from a previous ESB and did all the boiled water washes/rinses etc. I made a 1 litre starter up with this late last week, ready to pitch into a Timothy Taylor Landlord clone I brewed on Saturday (24 litres, OG 1.045). I pitched the starter at c. 20C and it was slowly bubbling away 3 hours later. Chugged away quietly enough yesterday but today (ambient temp.= 20C) it has gone boontah. Had to fit a blow off tube and everything. I didn't think that this yeast would go so nuts. Anyone else had this happen with this yeast?

Cheers

ToG

 

[Steve]

I took a leftover slurry of WY1318 from a previous ESB and did all the boiled water washes/rinses etc. I made a 1 litre starter up with this late last week, ready to pitch into a Timothy Taylor Landlord clone I brewed on Saturday (24 litres, OG 1.045). I pitched the starter at c. 20C and it was slowly bubbling away 3 hours later. Chugged away quietly enough yesterday but today (ambient temp.= 20C) it has gone boontah. Had to fit a blow off tube and everything. I didn't think that this yeast would go so nuts. Anyone else had this happen with this yeast?

Cheers

ToG

How much slurry did you use? You only need a cup full. If you used it all it'll definately be boontahingup
Cheers
Steve

 

[cdbrown]

Well I ended up mixing the 1.5L wort with the smacked pack in a 2L PET and then splitting that into a second PET. All went well. Didn't really know what I was doing or when to best use it, but on Friday I brewed up an Erdinger clone and tipped one of the bottles into the fermenter. The brew didn't seem to be going at all the following day, but a small gentle swirl of the fermenter kicked it off quickly and it's been going strong ever since. I'll be doing the 1.5L topup, shake and split again tonight and a bit later in the week build it up again before transferring to stubbies.

I also have Wyeast 4766 for cider - is using a malt the best process for this or should I use apple juice as the wort??

 

[NeilArge]

How much slurry did you use? You only need a cup full. If you used it all it'll definately be boontahingup
Cheers
Steve

I didn't split up the washed slurry. So, you think I should have split the starter I made before pitching into the one brew? That is, I overpitched? I followed the Mr malty pitching calculator too.

Cheers

Neil

 

[Phoney]

*bump*


OK So ive just read through the entire thread, the pictures on the OP have disappeaed so excuse me if I seem a little daft but im still fairly new to brewing so let me check if ive got this straight.

This is what im going to do:

1. Take my Wyeast packet out of the fridge and allow to warm to room temp
2. Pop the lump as per instructions on side of packet (how long do I need to leave it for?)
3. Boil up 2L of water with 200g of LDME, place in freezer and cool to about 20C
4. Pour solution into a 2.4L steralized juice bottle and then add the wyeast
5. Cap and shake like hell, then remove cap and stretch glad wrap over & close with rubber band. (or is an airlock in the lid necessary?)
6. After 2 - 3 days at high krausen, swirl to raise the yeast
7. Pour into 6 steralized 250ml juice bottles like these and store in the fridge:

8. 2 - 3 days before im ready to brew, I take out one of these bottles, pour into the 3L juice bottle, top up with 2L of solution as in step 3.
9. At high krausen it's ready to pitch


Correct?

Im using WYeast 3068 BTW