Starting Out All Grain

[Bugglz]

Ok i'm sure you guys have heard this all before, but this will only take a second, just need a yes or no answer

I've been brewing from kits for a while now and want to get into all grain, I've done a heap of reading and think i know what i need. I do want to get straight into it and don't want to mess around with mini mashes and all that.

I'm planing on using a 44Lt esky as a mash tun with a manifold made of 1/2 inch copper piping and a 50Lt CUB keg as HLT/Boiler with a heating element fixed into it.

I'm planing on heating the water up in the HLT then adding this + the grain to the mash tun (just planing a single step infusion mash), once the enzymes have done there work, sparge it with sparge water from the HLT, draining it through the manifold into a fermenter and then emptying this into the HLT/boiler to be boiled.

Does this seem right too all you? also i know the wort will take ages to boil using the element but i already have it, do you think it will take too long to bother with it?

Any other sugestions?

Cheers :beer:

 

[razz]

Not bad so far Bugglz, how many watts is the element ?
PS. Welcome to the forums.

 

[jjeffrey]

Using electrical heating elements, you are limited by the electrical power you can supply, which is about 2.5-3.0kW for a normal house circuit. A rough equation to work out how long it will take to bring to the boil is:

t (time in minutes) = [Volume of wort x 4.2 x (100 - starting temperature)] / (heating element size in kW x 60)

so, lets say you have a 1kW (or 1000 Watt) element, a 30L sweet wort that comes out of your mash at 60C:

t = 20*4.2*(100-60)/(1*60) = 84 minutes. Then of course, you would have your boil time on top of that.

If it was a 2.2 kW heating element, it would take 38 minutes.

From the equation, you can see how either the element size or the wort volume effect the time to boil. Generally, you will be limited to small batches (20-30L) and you want the biggest element you can put on without blowing your circuit breakers.

Cover your wort when heating- extended hot periods will cause oxidation in the wort and reduce the shelf life of the beer, as well as possibly introducing a cardboard flavour. If you can purge with CO2 at the beginning, then no dramas.

You will need the fattest power lead you can find (otherwise you might find that the cable heats up a fair bit: 2.2 kW draws a touch over 9 amps) , and try not to go for longer than 10m or you may start reducing the power capacity of the element. 1.5mm sq cable is the way to go.

Cleaning is the biggest bitch with an electric element, especially if it's one of those ones that loops aroung heaps (like most hot water heaters or urns).

Lots of people use them though.

Personally, I prefer sticking the HLT/kettle on a ring burner because the cleaning is easier and if you need more heat you get a bigger burner. They're relatively cheap, and you don't have to cut a hole in the side of your kettle. Have a look at bbq galore. The down side is that you can easily chew through the LPG, and you are emitting lots more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere (bad for greenies) because the heating efficiency is far less.

Your set-up sounds pretty sweet dude.

JJ

 

[blackbock]

Personally, I prefer sticking the HLT/kettle on a ring burner because the cleaning is easier and if you need more heat you get a bigger burner. They're relatively cheap, and you don't have to cut a hole in the side of your kettle. Have a look at bbq galore. The down side is that you can easily chew through the LPG, and you are emitting lots more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere (bad for greenies) because the heating efficiency is far less.

Your set-up sounds pretty sweet dude.

JJ

Nice maths jj,

You're right about the gas usage. As soon as I fire up my Nasa burner, I estimate about 1/5 of a cylinder of gas goes up in smoke for a 90 minute boil. For this reason I have switched over from a 9KG cylinder to a bigger 40?kg cylinder. Gas is the go, though, I feel.

 

[andreic]

Bugglz,

JJ has done some nice maths there that might give you a feel for possible timings but I say just do it! I did a lot of reading and thinking about AG before I dived in. Reading this site and seeing lots of other people jump in helped push me over the edge. Was just getting feedback from the Mrs tonight that the beers are way better now... :beer:

I have an old esky which I converted to mashtun. I got a pot, and a wok burner and hp reg as birthday presents (I asked for them, got the money and bought them myself). My pot serves as HLT and boiler, and I use a spare ferementer to collect runnings just as you propose. Do it!

The only thing is... if you are going to the effort of cutting up your HLT/boiler to fit in an element in, then why do it if the power isn't good enough? If its too slow for you I think you'll be replacing it within 10 brews :chug:

cheers,

Andrei

 

[matti]

] GO GAS

If not ensure the pot is bloody warm prior to run off

 

[devo]

best advice I can give is try a see a brew demo first if possible. Helps make all that reading fall into place. If you are located in Melb try getting down to a grain and grape demo.

 

[jjeffrey]

You're right about the gas usage. As soon as I fire up my Nasa burner, I estimate about 1/5 of a cylinder of gas goes up in smoke for a 90 minute boil. For this reason I have switched over from a 9KG cylinder to a bigger 40?kg cylinder. Gas is the go, though, I feel.

true that. I spend about 4 kg of LPG per brew inc, inc HL make-up for mashing and sparging. Mind you, I don't use any domestic hot-water so I'm heating from 15C.

40kg? what happens when you run out of gas half way through the boil and you have to nick down to the servo to top-up?

Devo's suggestion is a sound one: I pissed a lot of money up the wall that I didn't need to because I rushed into it. Having said that, you will never go back to K&K once you mash. Cut sick.

JJ

 

[enoch]

I wouldn't knock electric for a cheap boiler. You can use a HDPE bucket/drum and chuck a couple elements in and run off powerpoints on different house circuits.
My "bucket of death" was an interim measure when I went to 50 litre - has survived about 7-8 years brewing. (Ignore the braid - caused all sorts of prob's with pellets)

 

[Bugglz]

Thanks for all the help guys, i think i will just get a burner instead, maybe even chuck the element in the mash-tun???


Cheers guys!

 

[Steve]

I followed the pics on the bottom of the first page on this site.

http://cruisenews.net/brewing/infusion/

syphon your first and second runnings straight into boiler...no need to go into a fermenter first. (more cleaning up)

Cheers
Steve

 

[Bugglz]

Is there any disadvantages of batch sparging compared to slowly sprinkling the sparge water over the grain bed?

 

[bayWeiss]

Is there any disadvantages of batch sparging compared to slowly sprinkling the sparge water over the grain bed?

Nothing significant. There are advantages/disadvantages to the three main methods

1. Fly Sparge
2. No Sparge
3. Batch Sparge

here is a link that talks a little about the three, and then explains how to batch sparge.

I personally batch sparge, and have made wonderful beers with it, with high efficiencies also.