Starsan and PBW vs their Generics

[Auroch]

Hey all, maybe there is a thread on this somewhere but I cannot find it. As I get back into brewing my reading tells me PBW then starsan are the go for a sanitation process, I then speak to my nearest LHBS and they don't stock but do stock generics.

Normally when the chemist asks, I'm all good for the generics. I'm assuming its the case with these as well?

 

[Grott]

Can you state the name of the generics your local is selling?

 

[Auroch]

Can you state the name of the generics your local is selling?

No unfortunately not and I've never been in there. Its the Narre Brew shop maybe somebody here knows what they stock (they don't have an online shop)

 

[Lowlyf]

I use the generic stuff from Brewers Choice in QLD. I have never had an infection. Saying that, I'd love to use starsan once just to see if it has a different "odour". I feel like I can taste the brewers choice brand, it's quite strong

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

At the end of the day they are all the same basic chemical underneath, some just have different ratio's etc...but basically the same

BTW...StarSan is just ortho-phos acid...which you can buy in 25ltr drums from dairy and rural supplies really cheap...

Mind you...25ltrs of starsan would last the average brewer about 300yrs

 

[scooterism]

At the end of the day they are all the same basic chemical underneath, some just have different ratio's etc...but basically the same

BTW...StarSan is just ortho-phos acid...which you can buy in 25ltr drums from dairy and rural supplies really cheap...

Mind you...25ltrs of starsan would last the average brewer about 300yrs

Bulk buy anyone?

 

[Auroch]

At the end of the day they are all the same basic chemical underneath, some just have different ratio's etc...but basically the same

BTW...StarSan is just ortho-phos acid...which you can buy in 25ltr drums from dairy and rural supplies really cheap...

Mind you...25ltrs of starsan would last the average brewer about 300yrs

Bulk buy anyone?

I live in Dairy (Gippsland Victoria) central can probably source it from Murray Goulburn or one of the other farm supplies.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You can also buy drums of Idophore ( or whatever name they call it ) from them as well

 

[RdeVjun]

Iodophor.

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself!

 

[TidalPete]

Perhaps you would be better off organising a phos acid bulk buy with four others & get a 25-litre drum of Eliminate or similar from any farm produce place.

http://www.daviesway.com.au/all-products/eliminate.aspx?lv.crumb=73678

Five litres of Eliminate has lasted me 11 years or so with 500ml or so to go @ 2ml/litre water with no foam to fear.

My 2c

 

[Mardoo]

What's the suggested contact time on the dairy phos acid?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What's the suggested contact time on the dairy phos acid?

Same as star-san...its basically the same stuff

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

BTW...StarSan is just ortho-phos acid...

We've been over this before people: Starsan is not just phosphoric acid. It's 50% phosphoric acid and 15% sodium dodecyl sulphate, AKA sodium lauryl sulphate or SLS, same detergent that's in shampoo.

The biocidal action is due to the detergent which acts as a membrane disrupter* if the pH is below 3, the phosphoric is there to keep it at that pH when it's in contact with organic soils.


* Membrane disrupter = strong detergent. The microbial cell membrane is made up of lipids, if you hit it with an active enough detergent it will pull some of the lipids into solution** which breaks up the membrane and kills the microbe.

** the actual mechanism has to do with the formation of micelles but we are going to gloss over that.

 

[MHB]

Snip
** the actual mechanism has to do with the formation of micelles but we are going to gloss over that.

Kill joy
M

 

[Zorco]

Prefer matte finish sometimes. Micelles: you were saying?

Would the formation of micelles be a secondary or consequential operation from the destruction of the lipid bilayer of the cells?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

We've been over this before people: Starsan is not just phosphoric acid. It's 50% phosphoric acid and 15% sodium dodecyl sulphate, AKA sodium lauryl sulphate or SLS, same detergent that's in shampoo.

The biocidal action is due to the detergent which acts as a membrane disrupter* if the pH is below 3, the phosphoric is there to keep it at that pH when it's in contact with organic soils.


* Membrane disrupter = strong detergent. The microbial cell membrane is made up of lipids, if you hit it with an active enough detergent it will pull some of the lipids into solution** which breaks up the membrane and kills the microbe.

** the actual mechanism has to do with the formation of micelles but we are going to gloss over that.

I am going to mix some Dairy Phos with my Shampoo and let you know how it goes


Dairy Phos will basically do the same thing at the end of the day

 

[homebrewnewb]

while we're on chem 101, how is the detergent even active?
with a ph 3 i would have thought neutralisation of the sodium dodecyl sulphate precludes the addition, if someone can chem for me, that would be tops. inquiring minds wish to know.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

You are thinking of soaps, where the conjugate acid (eg palmitic acid) is a weak acid with a high pKa.

With SDS the conjugate acid (dodecyl sulphuric acid) is a strong acid.

 

[homebrewnewb]

i am, and thank you.