St Rogue Red Ale - Dry Hopped

[mika]

Ok, so drinking attempt No. 2 beside a bottle of the real thing.
Swing and a miss !
Reckon the hop profile is closer, though I think perhaps the hop additions should have been balnced percentage wise with the AA percentage. I couldn't say categorically, but I think the Chinook comes thru a little stronger than it should.
Colour is off, the real beer being a good couple of points darker and a lot more reddish amber.
Problem with comparing beer that's shipped over and obviously older to "brewery fresh" versions, makes it hard to figure whether the flavour is real or a product of age.
I'm thinking my version needs more medium-dark crystal which would take care of the colour and some of the flavour. The real version came across a litte sweet initially with more crystal in the aroma and the hop flavour is probably not as strong as previous versions I've had.
The biggest problem with all of this would be getting the attenuation which even mashing low and the pacman yeast is going to struggle to do. I'm starting to wonder if this is an all malt beer and whether I should be replacing some of the base malt with dextrose or other simple sugar to get it dry enough.

 

[mika]

Had another quick look at the bottle.

11 Ingredients, Harrington, Klages, Munich, Crystal 70-80, Hugh Baird Carastan 30/37 & 13/17 Malts. Chinook, Centennial & Rogue Farm Willamette Hops, Free range coastal water and Top fermenting Pacman Yeast

 

[bum]

Most of their beers have had a bit of a shake-up over the last year or so with their own Willamette subbing out some other addition. As a result some of the beers have noticeably changed and your current batch may be a little closer to the older version you might be chasing.

 

[Fourstar]

If you can add some bottle oxidation to bump the 'caramel' on the nose, you'll probabaly be spot on!

 

[Josh]

Brewed this today:

3.5kg Simpsons Maris Otter
1kg JW Munich
300g JW Crystal
300g Simpsons Med Crystal
300g Bairds Dark Crystal
6g CaSO4 mash & boil
64C mash 2 hours (drove to Absolute Homebrew for CO2 while mashing)
75C mashout & sparge

12g Chinook 11.4% 60 mins
30g Centennial 8.7% 20 mins
40g Centennial 8.7% cube
20g Centennial dry after 5 days
40g Chinook dry after 5 days

Planned OG was 1.052 but after a less than vi-garose boil, OG was only 1.044. Will add DME at pitching.

Got a starter of Wyeast Pacman waiting for this to cool down and be ready for fermentation.

I think the colour is okay. Was originally contemplating some black malt to darken it a little more. But I think it should be fine as it is. If I'm not happy with the colour I will steep some Carafa Special III and add when I add the dry hops.

I kegged this today.

Colour not really close. Needs to be darker and redder. I think the Carastan is the key to getting this beer right. Will try and source some of that for the next one.

Hop aroma and flavour are pretty close but it's a bit too bitter. I'll drop the cube hop by 10g and the 20 mins addition will be 5 mins to allow for the whirlpool and no-chill.

Pic looks slightly darker than it is.

 

[mika]

What Lov was the JW Crystal?
I'm thinking mine needs more medium crystal of some description. Possibly even a little more light crystal as well. Just not sure which way to go to achieve that.

 

[Josh]

What Lov was the JW Crystal?
I'm thinking mine needs more medium crystal of some description. Possibly even a little more light crystal as well. Just not sure which way to go to achieve that.

No idea, it's in a bag labelled JW Crystal.

Having conditioned in the keg a while now, I'm very happy with the hops as they are and I won't be changing those as the beer is fine as is.

I'll still be changing my grain bill for more dark red character. And a little more roasty character.

 

[mika]

Despite not having brewed in ages, I still listen to the BN and thanks to shuffle on the iPod, came across the old episode where they interviewed John Maier from Rogue. Show was on the 23-09-2007 and at about 1:45 in they discuss the Red Ale and then start talking about Santa's Private reserve, which is apparently the same malt base with extra hopping. John then mentions, that beer has 40% crystal malts in it, then mentions, Crystal 15, 40, 75 and munich malt. A short while later, there's mention of Chinook used as the bittering hop, nice high alpha.

That gives me a bit more to go on, so when I get back from Germany I'll need something to satisfy my hop craving. Attempt No. 3 at this could be the go.