Spa Chill

[bullsneck]

Hello fellow brewers,

Hope not to get flamed here, but I was toying with the idea of throwing my No-Chill cube in the disused spa here. It would get the temps down much faster and even let me pitch that day, perhaps.

The issues I can see are mainly to do with sanitation. Is it wise to be throwing a cube full of precious wort into a chlorinated environment?

Thoughts?

Cheers,

bullsneck

 

[bignath]

Howdy mate,

you are right in assuming it's about sanitation, but not from the spa so to speak.

No Chill works the way it works due to the lengthy time the wort sits in the cube. It's this length of time at high temp that guards against sanitation problems.

I have done what you are proposing, and asked about it myself. I never had a problem throwing it into the pool, but i was corrected in the true method of no chilling and now just leave it to cool down by itself.

It seems it's by far better to do either a proper chill in your kettle, or completely no chill. Anything halfway between the two is risking bad beer.

 

[manticle]

Summed up pretty well by BN.

If you want to pitch the same day then build/buy a chiller. No chill is for those who want to pitch the next day or later.

The other advantage is the water saving but you can recycle the water you use for chilling. No chill works because hot wort is contained in a sealed environment and remains hot for a certain amount of time. To rush the process goes against that principle and while it may work 9 times out of 10, it increases the risk of an infected wort as a result.

People have been chilling wort for a long time and have been doing it cheaply and effectively so if chilling is your thing then do it properly. If no-chilling is your thing then do likewise.

 

[bullsneck]

Thanks Nath and Manticle.

Was just a late night thought. Should have been sleeping rather than thinking about brewing.

 

[Ross]

Bullsneck,


Absolutely nothing wrong with your idea & actually less risk of infection IMHO than using a plate chiller or coil. If you want to pitch the same day & don't have (or don't want to use) a chiller, go for it.


Cheers Ross

 

[np1962]

I'm going to go against the other two here, with a couple of proviso's.
I see little difference in what is proposed here and carrying the pot to the laundry trough and sitting it in water to chill.
Apart from transfering to a different container to do it.
The OP has said he intends to pitch the same day so leaving at higher temp for a length of time to enable you to keep the wort for days,weeks or even months is not a concern.
So PROVIDED the container is well sanitised, there is no chance of the spa water getting into the container (remember the wort will shrink as it cools and will suck in if your seal is not 100%) and you pitch a healthy,viable yeast in the correct quantity within, say, 12 hours then I see no problem.
If you want to leave in the cube longer then it is basically the same procedure minus the swim in the spa.
Cheers
Nige

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Throwing a cube into a pool or spa.. Is not no chilling, its just regular old chilling. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with chilling. Be careful of your sanitation (i pesonally would not be keen to let manky spa water get anywhere near the threads on the lid...) and go - just dont let the fact that its in a cube trick you into thinking you can safely leave it for days/week/months like you could if you had actually let it cool down slowly.

 

[Goofinder]

I don't see a problem with it, as long as you leave it in the cube hot for a while. If you cube the wort, let it sit for say 1-2 hours (which is quite possibly overkill for 'pasteurisation' at just below boiling) then chuck it in the pool/spa to cool down I reckon you wouldn't have any troubles.

Given that everyone seems to claim the reason why no chill works is 'pasteurisation' or something similar this should be relatively safe and still allow you to pitch sooner. If you're not ready to go with the yeast though, why risk it?

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

I have done this about 20 times now. I have had one infection and it was "probably" due to not cleaning the cube properly (now using napisan and hot water). I left that particular brew for a week and it ballooned - the cube was toast.
I starsan the cube prior to the hot wort going in. It is cooled within hours to pitching temp. I usually pitch the same or next day.

Cheers
BBB

 

[CosmicBertie]

I have done this about 20 times now. I have had one infection and it was "probably" due to not cleaning the cube properly (now using napisan and hot water). I left that particular brew for a week and it ballooned - the cube was toast.
I starsan the cube prior to the hot wort going in. It is cooled within hours to pitching temp. I usually pitch the same or next day.

Cheers
BBB

I put my 35 ltr pot in the shallow end of the pool, the water comes up to about 3/4 of the pot. Cover the top with a double layer of cling film, put the lid on and let it sit there for a bit. I figured that 29,000 litres of 17.5deg water is going to chill it faster than my laundry sink. Worked a treat for me, and after the taste test last night, seems to have been successful. Not bad for my first AG BIAB.

 

[Florian]

Same here, I transfer to a well cleaned and sanitised cube while the wort is just above 90 degrees, expel absolutely all air, let it sit on its side for 10 to 20 minutes and then place in the pool with a few bricks underneath so that the cube opening is just above water level.

Best practice would probably be to wait a little longer, until the cube has cooled down to about 70 or so.
In my unqualified opinion this might even be slightly better than no chilling, as the wort, after spending enough time at 70+ degrees then spends less time at the critical temperature range of 50 to 30 degrees. Bacterias like Brett and Lactobacillus are happily breeding at 40 degrees, so the less time the wort spends there the better.

But happy to get flamed or politely corrected.

 

[Bribie G]

This time of year in Melb you should just be able to stick cube out of back door overnight, should be ideal for pitching next morning or even a tad too cold

 

[hazard]

This time of year in Melb you should just be able to stick cube out of back door overnight, should be ideal for pitching next morning or even a tad too cold

Yep 1 deg in Eltham this morning. Good lager temp.

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

I put my 35 ltr pot in the shallow end of the pool, the water comes up to about 3/4 of the pot. Cover the top with a double layer of cling film, put the lid on and let it sit there for a bit. I figured that 29,000 litres of 17.5deg water is going to chill it faster than my laundry sink. Worked a treat for me, and after the taste test last night, seems to have been successful. Not bad for my first AG BIAB.

Nice one ....

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Why is this hard?? Seriously, its just not complex at all.

If you want to pitch your yeast ASAP - then cool it down as quickly as you can. However you are able. Plate chiller, immersion chiller, pot in sink full of cold water, pot in pool, drain to cube and put it in a pool. In general, if you are going to cool quickly, then the faster the better - there are some benefits for your hop aroma if you can get it done genuinely fast.

If you want to be able to store your wort for a period of time before you pitch it - then you need to seal it into closed container, excluding as much air as you are able and throwing every last shred of germ killing ability at it that you can muster. Which includes proper chemical sanitation and as much heat/time exposure as you can.

Those are the two actually relevant choices. Everything else is some combination of being too lazy or too cheap to do one or the other properly. If you are making a decision on "how to cool my wort" decide which camp you are in, that will show you the base-line position. And then you can decide where on the scale of lazy or cheap you want to come down. Its not necessarily a bad to deviate from the base positions, but knowing what you actually want to achieve is half the battle.

Most people who struggle with this stuff seem to be in camp #1. For example.

Cube into pool/spa. Sure its in a cube, but its chilling - you want your wort asap. Camp#1
No-chilling in the kettle or fermenter. Ok, you didn't rapidly chill, but you obviously want to pitch soon and have no plans to store the wort. camp #1
Throw some big ice blocks in the hot wort - trying to chill fast. Camp #1
Pot/kettle into sink/spa/bath/pool/snow/river - its just chilling

People who are in camp #2 tend to not be so confused, they know what they need to do... But then they hear that hops work differently in no-chill and start to take risks. For example

Put cube into pool or spa to cool it more quickly, but keep it stored anyway - Camp #2 but playing with danger like its your best mate.
Put into a pool/spa for a little while just to cool it down a bit... As above
Chill it a bit before you put it in the cube.
Open the cube back up after its cooled down to put in some hops

All incremental deviations from the base position, all with an added (even if small) amount of danger of infection.

Decide what you want first - do you want it now? Or do you want to be able to keep it around for a while? Thats the decision that matters for the important "i might have to throw this away" "I might make myself sick" consequences. The rest is about how much time, energy, resources or money you are willing to invest in your brewing.