Sour Brown Ale

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Ash in Perth

Barrow Boys Brewing
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I recently tried leifmans old bruin which is a belgian wild fermented brown ale. like a lambic without the fruit but darker malts. This really caught my attention and im thinking about having a go at brewing something similar.

Has any one had any experience brewing something like this?

I have the 'wild brews' book but i have not had a chance to read it cover to cover yet.

Ash
 
Gday Ash

I've been planning on attacking this style myself. But as yet haven't had the courage or the gear to do so... Try and get your hands on a Rodenbach Grand Cru (not blended with younger beer) for a better understanding of what you could unleash flavour wise.... Or something like a Duchess de Bourgogne even though is a Flemish red and probably not available here, It has those same rich balsamic/chocolate/passion fruit notes and the distinctively long dry and acidic finish. See pic of one I had recently @ the Delirium cafe in Brussels. (BDB is flanked by two Rader Blonds.. A Juniper infused pale Belgian Ale)

Anyway Flemish browns get their flavour from mainly a Brett infection and a long maturation in oak. So be prepared to have separate gear for this beer as this infection is know to climb walls ! (so make sure you wash yourself well before you go to work... I don't want my APA tasting like vinegar B) )

Duchesse_de_Bourgogne.JPG

Asher for now
 
Try and get your hands on a Rodenbach Grand Cru (not blended with younger beer)

Got myself a packet of Roeselare yeast and similar wicked intentions on my mind. B)

Gotta love Rodenbach Grand Cru. :wub:

Warren -
 
Ah yes, that Rodenbach grand cru is quite a treat. Zymurgy recently did an issue on bug beers. Would pay to get yer hands on Wild brews though..
T
 
I thought alot of the acidity would come from lactic acid bacteria, and starting with a low wort pH.

I read a recipe in 'brew like a monk' that suggests adding dregs from a bottle or two of orval to get the brett going in the bottle. It would probably be a different species or strain but it might be a starting point.

I was going to wait untill I get a conical fermenter and jsut before i move at the end of the year. ill do it in an old fermenter at my old house and just chuck it out. All my good gear will be far away.
 
Ash, you might want to look on the Burgundian Babble Belt, here. It's a forum all about Belgians/sour beers/lambics/Brett/using all sorts of bugs. If the info's not on there, I'm sure you'll get some help in your quest.
 
Good idea Ash.... but

I'll be using the Wyeast Brett Culture I think... Don't want to age something for a year to find out its wet horse blanket instead of sweet acid tang.... You'll also have to find a storage vessel. Brett thrives in Oak. But Polycarb is meant to have similar O2 permeability.... After visiting Cantillon I'm going for the traditional Oak barrel I think...
I als tried a 'Petrus Aged Pale Ale' whilst in Bruges. It too is aged in Oak and has helped push me in that direction..

Petrus_Aged_Pale.JPG

Asher for now
 
Maybe we can get a few people in on it and share the costs... oak barrels are not cheap and they are quite big. an old chardonnay barrel could add some interesting subtle flavours.
 
Ash- I done a little experiment with the dregs from Orval as suggested in BLAM. It was an underattenuated tripel that really has dried out nicely, not quite acidic in taste but the taste of Brett is still there. Come to the next WCB and I'll give you one to try.

I sent this one to be sampled by a couple of high profile brewing consutants, (you know who), and the verdict was returned. "It's infected". !!!!!!!!
 
I thought alot of the acidity would come from lactic acid bacteria, and starting with a low wort pH.

I read a recipe in 'brew like a monk' that suggests adding dregs from a bottle or two of orval to get the brett going in the bottle. It would probably be a different species or strain but it might be a starting point.

I was going to wait untill I get a conical fermenter and jsut before i move at the end of the year. ill do it in an old fermenter at my old house and just chuck it out. All my good gear will be far away.
G'day Ash,

If you're going to toss out the old plastic fermentor, please write on it, in large letters "Brettanomyces Infection in this vessel - Discarded" or something similar. Just in case someone scabs it from your footpath and tries to brew in it.
If they don't seek advice about the message, then it's their own problem.

I saw in an old Ausbeer magazine, that a group of brewers in Sale made a large batch of kriek lambic in an old 200l oak barrel. Some of the cultures were obtained from Jean-Xavier Guinard (author of Lambic, from the Classic Beer Styles series). The brewers all contributed a 20l batch, brewed one week prior to adding to the barrel and pitching a 20l culture of the microflora. Don't know if a similar thing might work for your "Oud Bruin", but I hope this thought helps. I'd love to be in on that, but distance precludes. Dirty shame...

Beerz
Seth out :p
 
Pretty good at infected beers here so figure this is all a piece of the proverbial. A dilemma, my american white oak barrel is half full of the best rum I have evet made, now 10 months in the oak. Do I give up fermenting molasses and making good rum to try lambic/gueuze, or but another barrell. Can get them from wineries when they are finished with them pretty cheap but transport is a killer. Brett and blends of Brett and Ped are available for innoculation of barrells but time is the big factor in producing these beers.
 
I made a sour brown a couple of years ago, using 3763 Roeselare Lambic Blend. It remains one of the finest beers I have ever made, and amongst the best beers (commercial or homebrew) I've ever tasted.

It started life as a relatively low OG brown ale - around 1.042 - more or less in the style of Rodenbach. I threw about 20g of boiled american oak chips into the primary, to give a subtle woody flavour and provide something for the brett to live on. The Roeselare strain did a fairly quick initial ferment with the saccharomyces dominating - initial impressions after a week were that I had made a batch of English mild. Over the next 3 or so weeks, a huge pellicle formed with bubbles up to the size of a half tennis ball, and the flavour took on a lactic tang with interesting aromatics including an intriguing hint of cherry/fruit.

After about 5 weeks, I bottled half the batch - this was the plain 'sour brown ale'.

The other half of the batch was dosed with four jars of Morello cherries (black forest cake cherries), which had the juice decanted off. This caused a 2nd krausen - a pink one - followed by about a month of quite vigorous brett activity with the pellicle re-growing after being destroyed by the krausen. After about 5-6 weeks in this state, everything died down and the cherries all flocculated out to the bottom. This 2nd half - ABV% unknown - was bottled as a 'sour cherry beer'.

Both batches were superb beers, which took a good 18 months to reach their full maturity. For about the first 6 months it was fairly ordinary - unbalanced sourness, the effect being like taking a mouthful of beer followed by a sudden hit of sourness. After that it started improving and by about 14 months age was sensational. Opinion about whether the cherry or plain sour brown was better seemed to be about 50:50. A few people couldn't stand it at all.

The sourness increased a little over the first few months in the bottle, then stabilised. Every bottle formed a small pellicle which eventually dissipated. The final forms of the beers were a fairly thin & light brown ale, with refreshing sourness, a superb lactic aroma, and hints of fruit which were strangly cherry like, and a more intensely sour, reddish ale of higher alcohol with good cherry flavour and aroma, and that same clean lactic aroma.

The base recipe is attached. Note that I was playing silly buggers with over complex recipes - 4 different kinds of crystal. I'd recommend just using CaraMunich and CaraAroma. The primary should have a decent amount - say 20g - of toasted oak chips in it. Boil the oak chips before use to get rid of astringency and over the top wood flavours. If you desire a plain sour beer, allow at least a month, probably longer before bottling. If you desire a fruit beer, add the fruit at the point where you would have bottled the 'plain' beer, and be sure to bottle a few 'plain' bottles for comparision!

This is a beer I will brew again - I have two smack packs of 3763 in my fridge for that purpose.

cheers,
Colin

View attachment 49_oud_bruin.html
 
Cheers, this will give me something to think about.

Chers for the offer Vlad, but I dont tihnk ill be at many WCB meetings with my work hours unfortunately.
 
Quite a thread! Just spent the last hour or so following the links and some links from those links. Had been reading a bit earlier this evening about kefir and other ferments in Wild Fermentation (Sandor Ellix Katz) and the links carried me into areas discussing that as well as "true" ginger beer plant (not just the stuff made from dried ginger, but the complex venerable culture, something like kefir grains or Tara -- a Tibetan equivalent). All a bit mind boggling.

Beer sounds quite tasty, but probably down the road for me. The suggestion of a few different batches all going into a communal vat sounded inspired...

Thanks for the edifying evening Ash.

Cheers, Brian
 
If you're going to toss out the old plastic fermentor, please write on it, in large letters "Brettanomyces Infection in this vessel - Discarded" or something similar. Just in case someone scabs it from your footpath and tries to brew in it.
If they don't seek advice about the message, then it's their own problem.

I dunno, I find the notion of a two-dollar brewer unwittingly producing lambics to be highly amusing.
 
If you're going to toss out the old plastic fermentor, please write on it, in large letters "Brettanomyces Infection in this vessel - Discarded" or something similar. Just in case someone scabs it from your footpath and tries to brew in it.
If they don't seek advice about the message, then it's their own problem.

I dunno, I find the notion of a two-dollar brewer unwittingly producing lambics to be highly amusing.
What, introduce a higher class of infection?
 
This Jamil's prize winning Flanders Red recipe. So I guess you could say it's from a reliable source. :lol:

As requested, here is the recipe for my Flanders Red Ale. Make sure you read the fermentation notes at the end.

Flanders Red Ale (BOS)

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

20-E Lambic & Belgian Sour Ale, Flanders Red Ale

Min OG: 1.042 Max OG: 1.060
Min IBU: 14 Max IBU: 25
Min Clr: 10 Max Clr: 16 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 6.00 Wort Size (Gal): 6.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 14.00
Anticipated OG: 1.059 Plato: 14.58
Anticipated SRM: 14.2
Anticipated IBU: 15.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 7.74 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.046 SG 11.43 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
32.1 4.50 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
32.1 4.50 lbs. Vienna Malt America 1.035 4
3.6 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25
21.4 3.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
3.6 0.50 lbs. CaraMunich Malt Belgium 1.033 75
3.6 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
3.6 0.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Germany 1.039 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.70 oz. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.70 15.6 60 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP001 California Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 14.00
Water Qts: 18.20 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 4.55 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.30 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 154 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 60


Total Mash Volume Gal: 5.67 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.


Notice that the yeast is CA ale? How in the world then do you get the funky, sour flavors of this style?

1) Ferment the beer cold, around 65F, trying to leave some residual sugar, around 1.015 to 1.020.

2) Rack the beer off the yeast into a clean, plastic bucket with lid and airlock. Pitch Wyeast Roselare (just smack it and toss it, don't wait for it to swell).

3) Keep it around 65F to70F for six months, until the pellicle forms and drops.



Warren -
 
What's with the American (not Metric) units Warren?
Do you know how much this is costing 'the client' with me converting it all at work!! :rolleyes:

Asher for now
 

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