Soapy Taste And Texture

[jbirbeck]

I've done a few brews recently that have ended up witha soapy taste/texture to them. The first was a german pils. All Pils malt, Halertau and Sapphire hops, fermented with 2308 Munich Lager. Initially I would have said it was like burnt plastic (probably from the use of a new fermenter) but it developed a soapy flavour. Did it again as a replacement batch same recipe different fermenter, fresh yeast, no burnt plastic, but slightly off through the ferment...ultra lap hop to try and mask it...hopping hid it a bit but not great.

I no-chill.

Yeast pitching rate - based on the discussions on here about it and MrMalty - way under pitched (by about half)
Ferment temp - def not in ideal lager temp range, much higher - ale temps around 20...
primary - a week
secondary and CC - two to three weeks.
Bottled and left for a month or so.
sanitation - bleach in water, shake shake shake and empty - no bleach smell remaining when hot wort goes into the fermenter to chill.
taste - nice pils initially with a soapy aftertaste. side by side with another brew with the same hops and yeast the pils was very ordinary. A soapy texture is also there. The brew never really cleared either. thats a first for me as well.

Now I've done another batch of a different beer. An English bitter. way overhopped with Sticklebract hops to the point that the IBU's are around 80 due to a mistake by me. taste out of the fermenter seems a bit soapy, texture is a bit soapy as well. Yeast was a repitch of 1026 from another Ale from secondary. I racked off the trub last night, it had been in primary for 5 days and was 90% femented OG was 1040 (same as the pils).

The repitched yeast came from an Ale that had none of the soapy flavours and was tasting fantastic (real test will be on the weekend when I do the first taster)

I know soapy can come from sitting on the trub too long BUT in these soapy beers I've done they've been in primary max a week and then into secondary, and I get very little sediment in secondary... WTF is going on?

Ferment temp is no doubt a bit high - could this be it? getting through the ferment too quick?
There is a lot of trub coming out of the kettle into the fementer - could this be it? - I've done a 50+ brews using the same method trub and all into the fermenter and haven't had this happen before.

 

[warrenlw63]

I've done a few brews recently that have ended up witha soapy taste/texture to them. The first was a german pils. All Pils malt, Halertau and Sapphire hops, fermented with 2308 Munich Lager.

RC Until you mentioned there was an ale in the equation I was going to say maybe it was DMS? I had no luck at all with NC Lagers and Weyermann Pils malt. The resultant beer wound up with DMS on each occasion.

Given the fact you said your ale tasted soapy that sounds like something else then ??

Warren -

 

[Effect]

I think from others experiences it is to do with your cleaning procedure - either it is an infection or cleaning (both will be covered if you change your cleaning procedure)

Have a search of the forums, as this isn't the first time this problem has arised!

 

[drsmurto]

What sanitiser are you using and at what concentrations?

 

[Darren]

Soapy can be caused from old hops.
cheers

Darren

 

[bradsbrew]

I get the same soapy taste when I use pilsener malt dont know if its my mashing technique or the flavour the grain puts out.

Brad

 

[jbirbeck]

Cheers everyone...

RC Until you mentioned there was an ale in the equation I was going to say maybe it was DMS? I had no luck at all with NC Lagers and Weyermann Pils malt. The resultant beer wound up with DMS on each occasion.

Given the fact you said your ale tasted soapy that sounds like something else then ??

Warren -

DMS is a possibility with the pils - bad practice I know but the brew pot tends to get a slight covering during the boil due to wind issues out the back and NG use so the heat coming from the burner can be reduced limiting the rolling boil hence lid partially on during the boil to maintain heat, but it does depend on the day.

I think from others experiences it is to do with your cleaning procedure - either it is an infection or cleaning (both will be covered if you change your cleaning procedure)

Have a search of the forums, as this isn't the first time this problem has arised!

Procedure - clean everything staright after the brew is out of the fermenter air dry, close it up and store. On brew day rinse with a splash of bleach to about 3 or 4 litres of water. Might use a no rinse sanitiser on some days. depends how I'm feeling, after that the hot stuff is in there and its all closed up.

What sanitiser are you using and at what concentrations?

Normally bleach and water - a spash (say 30-60ml) to about 3-4 litres of water. The second pils was done with a no rinse sanitiser from LHBS, rinsed about the place dumped it then with a spray bottle just to make sure, sprayed the interior surfaces of the fermenter again.

Soapy can be caused from old hops.
cheers

Darren

That could be it with the Pils. they are older pellets. The Sticklebract - shouldn't be that bad, prop 6 months since purchase, in freezer and still in original package until brew day.

I get the same soapy taste when I use pilsener malt dont know if its my mashing technique or the flavour the grain puts out.

Brad

Good to know. I was starting to think it was the malt. But it looks like it could be a combo of things with the pils brews inc the malt, the hops and perhaps a bit of residual bleach or something. Might even be an infection thrown in for fun.

I'll have to give the ale another taste tonight to see how it is out of the fermenter but other than that I'll need to wait those few weeks to see how it turns out.



A follow up question if anyone knows (and it may be difficult if we haven't definitively defined the problem I know) - with my overhopped Ale, any chance I could hide/disguise the soap by doubling the batch size chucking in either a tin o goo or mashing and extra couple of kilos of grain??

 

[Thirsty Boy]

hmm - bleach could be a bad thing if its not really well rinsed. Chlorophenols smell plastic/bandaid/medicine which could be interpreted as soapy I guess.

As Darren said, it could be old or oxidised hops - and also old or oxidised malt. Could be an infection (some bacteria produce butyric acid)

Could be higher levels of oleic or linoleic acid. Which might mean you are getting an inadequate hot break or leaving your wort in contact with the hot break too long, and things have oxidised.

Perhaps look at how much oxygen you are letting get in contact with your beer - and maybe check your hotbreak and separation.

Soapy is hard to hide or dilute away - the thresholds for the soapy, cheesy flavour compounds are pretty low

 

[pint of lager]

This link
from "How to Brew" may throw some light.

Since you no chill, there is alot of trub in the wort and could be the source of your problems.

 

[Tony M]

This link
from "How to Brew" may throw some light.

This link seems very concerned with electronics rather than beer

 

[pint of lager]

Thanks Tony, link now fixed.

 

[tommygun]

I had a very soapy taste in two brews a very nice looking IPA and a lager they would taste good but extreme soapy after taste and soapy texture. It was the same flavour in both so I looked at all my ingredients and procedures. I found it was the dextrose I was using to prime my bottles. Must at some point in its life sat next to a open container of laundry detergent because it tasted like it. Got a new batch of dextrose no problems since. So double check your ingredients it could be that.

Thomas

 

[kevin_smevin]

I suggest 2 things.

1st: . Buy a racking can and use that to transfer you wort to your fermenter. This way you can avoid all the trub at the bottom. I haven't looked back since transferring this way.

2nd: There's a good chance that the taste you are getting is to do with the pH of your final beer. For your next batch make sure you are using about 100ppm Ca in your mash a sparge water. You should do this with all styles. If you want to get more technical you can add different amounts of salts for different beer styles but keep your Ca at around 100ppm (50ppm minimum) in all of them. This should help to acidify you wort to the correct level. If you have any way of checking pH, you wort should be between 5 and 5.2 by the end of the boil. It will change during the boil so start checking in the last 15min. You can adjust pH down in the boil by adding acid or some CaSO4. You will also achieve a much better break and get much clearer beer when using this concentration of Ca.

Thats my two cents. Good luck

 

[jbirbeck]

I'll give it all a go, racking can, change of priming sugars, adjust pH and calcium, fresh hops etc

cheers all