So, I fell asleep....during a boil

[Zorco]

Is the result supposed to be drinkable? Enjoyable?

We'll definitely need some sensory evaluation reports.

Yes and yes. That is the primary subjective objective. Lol

They will need age. I'm thinking year(s)

 

[Zorco]

Open up the time frame a little and I might be in.

I'm probably going to go ahead with mine. My SHG is getting on and I don't trust a cube with so much air space.

We could design this challenge for Autumn next year and coordinate.

 

[manticle]

Definitely you should do yours asap.

Just the completion date that should hopefully widen.

 

[Yob]

^^ Agree ^^

will need more time than outlined

 

[Zorco]

^^ Agree ^^

will need more time than outlined

Autumn next year not time enough???

Look we can consider this again in 12 months time but that's pretty poor form.

[emoji14]

 

[Zorco]

In any case, thanks everyone for the help. I'm good to try something.

As for measuring OG, I'm going to dilute my wort with a matching volume of RO water and take a reading.

 

[tarmael]

TL;DR entire thread - something something something hop oil half life - you have no bitterness in there after a 3+hr boil nap

 

[Yob]

TL;DR entire thread - something something something hop oil half life - you have no bitterness in there after a 3+hr boil nap

huh? There will be plenty of bitterness..

 

[manticle]

TL;DR entire thread - something something something hop oil half life - you have no bitterness in there after a 3+hr boil nap

Wot?

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

I think that's Kiddy hip talk for can't spell real words mofo, keepin it real yowl.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

TL;DR entire thread - something something something hop oil half life - you have no bitterness in there after a 3+hr boil nap

err..that aint right...not even close...

something about hop utilisation increasing with boil time ( although after 60mins it start to slowly level off )

 

[mikec]

Sorry.

For those not familiar with the techniques used for measuring alcohol, the ASBC standard method was distillation using a standardised condenser, which became known as an IRS or "internal revenue" condenser because it was used to assess alcohol level for payment of excise. Proper name is a Graham condenser:

Once the alcohol is distilled over, the sample is brought back to original volume and the density is measured with a hydrometer or pycnometer. The latter is more accurate but much harder to use, most people use a hydrometer.

If you set this up for a brewery above the level at which the appropriate agency* insists on measurement rather than calculation (IIRC it's 0.5 Ml PA) you go through a procedure where you provide a measurement from your lab which is cross checked by AGAL. Once they accept that your measurements are OK you no longer have to get the separate check before you pay excise, you can just fill out the appropriate form (? Nature40 ? it's a long time since I did this) with your value.

This may sound like a lot of palaver but Abby alone pays almost a billion dollars a year in excise, the allowable variation in measurement (0.2% ABV) represents something like +/- $50million PA. They really want to know that you have the right number.




* used to be customs and excise, probably now Border Farce.

ATO looks after excise for alcohol now.
And I thought the production level required for measurement rather than calculation was 100,000L?

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

Wot?

huh? There will be plenty of bitterness..

Iso alpha degrade with higher temps. So while you are converting alpha acid to iso alpha during the boil you are also losing them. If you boil for longer than ~90min you begin to lose IBUs because you are losing more iso alpha than you are gaining.

 

[Yob]

He said no bitterness.. Just ain't right..

I've done 2+ hours and guess what?

 

[manticle]

Iso alpha degrade with higher temps. So while you are converting alpha acid to iso alpha during the boil you are also losing them. If you boil for longer than ~90min you begin to lose IBUs because you are losing more iso alpha than you are gaining.

Yes but not none after 3 hrs.

Utter misunderstanding of the term ' half life'.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Iso alpha degrade with higher temps. So while you are converting alpha acid to iso alpha during the boil you are also losing them. If you boil for longer than ~90min you begin to lose IBUs because you are losing more iso alpha than you are gaining.

The turnover point depends on a few things but in average conditions it's about four hours before utilisation starts to decline and about 8-10 hours for it to fall to half of the value at 90 mins.

I summarised the most recent available data on utilisation rates in this thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/91684-improving-precision-in-ibu-calculations/, the calculator attached will show results for extended boils.

There's a secondary effect that the extreme concentration will likely reduce AA solubility but unfortunately little research has been done on hop utilisation in worts of 40 oP.

 

[Killer Brew]

ATO looks after excise for alcohol now.
And I thought the production level required for measurement rather than calculation was 100,000L?

Yes and no. 14 below states this. However 13.4 allows for any other method that consistently gives an accurate result. This has allowed breweries doing greater than 100,000 L p.a. to continue using hydrometers provided they can convince the ATO of their ability to measure accurately and keep appropriate records.

13. Permissible methods are:
13.1. gas chromatography; 13.2. near infra-red spectrometry; 13.3. distillation followed by the gravimetric measurement of the distillate or by measurement in a density meter; or 13.4. any other method that consistently produces a similar result demonstrated by a documented testing process.

14. Breweries producing less than 100,000 litres of beer in a financial year may use a hydrometer and a formula to determine the alcoholic strength of the beer, provided the formula is supported by a documented testing process that shows the formula produces accurate results. The records are to be retained for 5 years after a formula has ceased to be used. Individual brews produced in a BOPS for non-commercial purposes using commercial equipment do not need to be strength tested, provided the alcoholic strength that the recipe produces has been established using one of the above methods. The strength of the recipes should be re-established at least once a year.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

ATO looks after excise for alcohol now.
And I thought the production level required for measurement rather than calculation was 100,000L?

OK. Thanks, as I said it's a long time since I had do deal with this.

 

[Zorco]

TL;DR entire thread - something something something hop oil half life - you have no bitterness in there after a 3+hr boil nap

You may be right mate. The syrup was thick and delicious and not much bitterness to speak of. I can't remember how much exactly but it was an English porter with the fuggles I got from Yob. I want to say 180g at 60... But will check.

Not only is there the chemistry as talked about above, but I was not there to keep stirring in the hops once it held onto the pot wall. A lot of hop mass was above the boil when I checked in the morning and probably not contributing bitterness.

I'm interested to see how the bitterness presents once ferment is done

 

[Zorco]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2003.tb00162.x/asset/j.2050-0416.2003.tb00162.x.pdf?v=1&t=itp9f4iv9f627241