Second Stove Biab - B*lls Up (alittle Bit)

[aroo75]

Well I bagged up the grains on sunday for my second BIAB and using Dr S's
Original Golden Ale recipe I got total 4kgs of

2.250 kg Pilsner (56.25%)
0.750 kg Munich I (18.75%)
0.750 kg Wheat Malt (18.75%)
0.250 kg Caramunich I (6.25%)

20.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.7 g/L)
15.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (1.3 g/L)
15.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (1.3 g/L) (10min off boil rest)

This is supposed to give me 1077 in 12 litres. I want to
dilute to 15L (maybe even 18?) but that might wack out too much bitterness ...

So lets see how it went. Strike 12L @ 70.5C - check,
mash grains in, 65.5C (aiming for 66C). Mash 60mins. Mash out at
63C, not too bad.

So next my sparging math I didn't think this thru as much and poured
4L @75C into green bucket and dumped bag in. Bucket holds 9L and water
went everywhere - crap. Next time bag in first then sparge with water.

Second mistake was not enough water in for the boil, I think after everything I measured
I had about 12L for the boil (should be around 14-15L) and I didn't
correct this (and think to correct this).

So OG here read 1060 at 24-25C.
Next boil on for 60mins with noted hop additions + whirlfloc @10mins.

Yeah so once boil over and pot in the cooling sink, I had 8.5L of OG 1077 in the
pot. I lost a lot during the boil and I remember I scooped out alot of
crap from the top of the boil (what is it called, brain not working...).


Yes - well lessons to be learned, more litres in pot before boil. plus handling 4kg grain is
different from the 2kg and crap goes everywhere. Lucky wife not home
to see it.

I took the risk and diluted to 15 litres in fermenter and that gives me
OG 1041 - hope that gives ~4% in the bottle. It tastes very good anyway.

Next I'll do the 4kg of Pale Malt (or is it Pale ALe Malt) for an AG aussie
lager-ish type brew. Hoping to manage the sparging better and get more litres
in the pot . Still waiting for the 9L AG Pale Ale in the bottle to carb up,

Andrew

 

[Nick JD]

You're pushing the envelope making 4kg batches in a 19L pot. It's totally doable - but you need to get your sparging skill almost to the level of 3V brewers, as that 4kg of grain (and your grain to water ratio) is trapping LOTS of sugaz.

In many ways, using more than 3.5kg of grain means that that extra 500g is almost useless. I do no-sparge BIAB 17L batches (1.040-1.045) using around 3.5kg in the 19L pot. I reckon this is the 19L pot brewing's sweet spot.

Pushing for that extra 3 liters just makes the whole task a lot more difficult - not sparging at all makes the brew day more pleasant.

If you're set on bigger batches, then a 30L pot with an electric element in it is perfect. You can pump out 20L of any beer you like with no high-gravity corretions or diluting needed.

Thing is - all this fluffing about is teaching you a hell of a lot - and you'll find normal-gravity brewing a cinch.

 

[aroo75]

damn those extra litres. So Nick u reckon 3.5 kg in 12L for the mash ... and whats the no sparge method - from your 9Ltr tutorial it mentioned rinsing with 1 L or so into said green bucket... would I just drain into bucket and forget rinsing with so many litres

Can I ask did you use pale malt or pale ale malt for the aussie recipe (or it doesn't matter? )

Thanks a mil Andrew

 

[Fodder]

So next my sparging math I didn't think this thru as much and poured
4L @75C into green bucket and dumped bag in. Bucket holds 9L and water
went everywhere - crap. Next time bag in first then sparge with water.

I did this the first time also...

However, I've been pushing the 6kg mark (5.8 to be exact) when it comes to grain bills and not really having any major dramas with it. Found that a 2L kettle off the boil, sparged 3 times works well. Not very accurate temp wise, but works for me. Gets me hitting my targets fairly well and even diluted to 21L I still get OG above 1055.

I'm sure I'll be told why this is not such a good idea but for the time being its the best I can do without extra $$$ outlay.

 

[Nick JD]

damn those extra litres. So Nick u reckon 3.5 kg in 12L for the mash ... and whats the no sparge method - from your 9Ltr tutorial it mentioned rinsing with 1 L or so into said green bucket... would I just drain into bucket and forget rinsing with so many litres

Can I ask did you use pale malt or pale ale malt for the aussie recipe (or it doesn't matter? )

Thanks a mil Andrew

Yeah - 3.5kg in 12L or thereabouts. No sparging is just squeezing the **** out of the bag - it's how BIAB "should" be done. I showed it in that tutorial thread as it's a handy skill for high gravity brewing. And after making 9L of beer absolutely everyone thinks, "But how much more can I get out of this?!" As Fodder shows, sky's the limit if you wanna push. I've never gone above 5kg.

You can use BB Pale or BB Ale in Aussie lagers. The Ale is just slightly darker - they both taste pretty similar. Both have that signature "Aussie Lager" taste that a lot of people attribute incorrectly to PoR.

 

[Truman42]

I did a 4.8kg grain bill in my 18 litre urn. But as Nick says it was bloody hard and makes for a full on brew day.

At mash out I struggled to pull the bag and sat it in a colander on top of the urn and squeezed it out as much as possible.

Then I threw it into a bucket with 2 litres of boiled water and topped up from a kettle, sparged and tipped it into my urn before the boil had commenced. Had almost 18 litres at SOB.

I sparged another two times during the boil and my gravity was 10 points over my OG. (This covered most of my evaporation loss)

So I was able to dilute with water in my fermenter and from memory ended up with a batch size of around 18 litres + fermenter trub.

 

[aroo75]

I think I'll pull the grains in to 3.5kg and see if there's less mess-ups. Thanks for all your help. And good to see what you guys have done here too. It kinda a race to get the practice in and then study the theory of what went good or bad. Thanks guys Andrew

 

[Truman42]

I think I'll pull the grains in to 3.5kg and see if there's less mess-ups. Thanks for all your help. And good to see what you guys have done here too. It kinda a race to get the practice in and then study the theory of what went good or bad. Thanks guys Andrew

I originally had my efficiency set to 70% in brewmate when stepping down recipes to my 18 litre urn.

But over 6 BIABS Ive now done, Ive always hit 10 points higher or so. Its good as I can dilute with water in my cube to keep my volume up and allow for trub loss.
But lots of hard work on brew day...so depends on if you could be bothered sparging 2-3 times or not.

However Ive now increased my efficiency to 80% which will lower my grain bill and make things a bit more manageable.

 

[chunckious]

So truman, if you dilute with water into your cube wont that throw the hopping/IBU's out. Or do you incorporate the added water into your total volume in your recipe?

 

[Truman42]

So truman, if you dilute with water into your cube wont that throw the hopping/IBU's out. Or do you incorporate the added water into your total volume in your recipe?

Its a bit of hit and miss really. I usually just increase my hops slightly to compensate so 20 grams at 60 mins I will increase to 25 grams. Then just go on taste and make notes for next time.
usually I dont know how much water im going to add until Ive checked my gravity at EOB.

 

[RdeVjun]

Dilute in the fermenter, not the cube guys? I guess you could do so but it seems like a waste of energy to me, you'd only want to be adding boiling water, no? (I don't believe NC cubes must be full to the brim!)
The concentrated boil of the bigger grainbill does utilise hops less efficiently, you can adjust upward by this rough formula- for every 0.010 above 1.050* increase hops by 10%. *'Average' Boil SG, so startSG + endSG / 2, sometimes the end SG is hard to predict. TBH though, I've never really bothered doing that, it was hard to tell if it made any difference. Oh, and I always formulate recipes at diluted strength, some recipating applications can manage dilution correctly though.

I used to regularly mash 4.5 to 5kg in the 19L pot, however as Nick says, it does need no small amount of skill with sparging and so forth to keep it efficient and worthwhile, so its best to keep things simple in the beginning and run with a smaller brewlength and a more relaxed brewday. If you feel like a challenge though, I know it can be done, so by all means crank out 23L+ of beer from a 19L pot! B)

Oh, and BTW, well done Andy, not a bad result and hope that beer is a cracker!! :icon_cheers:

 

[Truman42]

Dilute in the fermenter, not the cube guys? I guess you could do so but it seems like a waste of energy to me, you'd only want to be adding boiling water, no? (I don't believe NC cubes must be full to the brim!)
The concentrated boil of the bigger grainbill does utilise hops less efficiently, you can adjust upward by this rough formula- for every 0.010 above 1.050* increase hops by 10%. *'Average' Boil SG, so startSG + endSG / 2, sometimes the end SG is hard to predict. TBH though, I've never really bothered doing that, it was hard to tell if it made any difference. Oh, and I always formulate recipes at diluted strength, some recipating applications can manage dilution correctly though.

I used to regularly mash 4.5 to 5kg in the 19L pot, however as Nick says, it does need no small amount of skill with sparging and so forth to keep it efficient and worthwhile, so its best to keep things simple in the beginning and run with a smaller brewlength and a more relaxed brewday. If you feel like a challenge though, I know it can be done, so by all means crank out 23L+ of beer from a 19L pot! B)

Oh, and BTW, well done Andy, not a bad result and hope that beer is a cracker!! :icon_cheers:

I ferment in my cubes as well. So after I drain from kettle to a 23 litre willow cube, I take a sample, allow it to cool and take a gravity reading.

Then using your formula for dilution ratio I work out how much water I need to dilute back to OG.

Its usually only a litre or two so I add boiled water as required and leave the cube to no chill over night on the garage floor.