Saison Recipe

[petesbrew]

Here's my idea for my 3rd AG, to do sometime in late spring, early summer, when the warmer weather really kicks in.

Saison de Rue De Boulanger
Category - Belgian and French Ale
Subcategory - Saison
Recipe Type - All Grain
Batch Size - 23 liters
Volume Boiled - 36 liters
Mash Efficiency - 71.7 %
Total Grain/Extract - 7.88 kg.
Total Hops - 65.0 g.

Ingredients
6 kg. Australian Traditional Ale
1 kg. Australian Wheat Malt
0.2 kg. Melanoidin Malt
0.18 kg. Belgian Cara-Pils
0.5 kg. Candi Sugar Clear
45 g. Styrian Goldings (Pellets, 4.600 %AA) boiled 60 min.
20 g. Czech Saaz (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 5 min.
5 grams orange peel (not included in calculations)
5 grams coriander (not included in calculations)
Yeast : Wyeast Farmhouse Ale



Predicted Saison Compliance
Original Gravity 1.076 1.048 - 1.080 100 %
Terminal Gravity 1.015 1.010 - 1.016 100 %
Color 8.06 SRM 5.00 - 12.00 SRM 100 %
Bitterness 28.2 IBU 25.00 - 45.00 IBU 100 %
Alcohol (%volume) 8.0 % 5.00 - 8.50 % 100 %
100 % overall


Dunno how it looks yet.
Not sure of how much orange peel or coriander to use, so any and all comments welcome.
Cheers
Pete

 

[deadly]

I'd drop the orange and coriander and let the yeast do its thing

 

[Stuster]

I'd drop the orange and coriander and let the yeast do its thing

+1

 

[Katherine]

Hey Pete,

A little :icon_offtopic: but what did you end up doing with the coconut addition to your bounty ale?

 

[randyrob]

looks beautiful, the only thing i don't know about is the Melanoidin & i'd prolly use pils malt
but i like my saison's really light & dry

what temp are u going to mash at?

 

[petesbrew]

Hey Pete,

A little :icon_offtopic: but what did you end up doing with the coconut addition to your bounty ale?

Hey Katie, I posted what I did in the coconut dark ale thread. It's smelling pretty harsh right now, will have to sample it tonight.
Cleaned out the primary fermenter the other night, burnt my nose hairs, and got some harsh comments from a pregnant Shaz regarding the smell.

Back on topic... i wanna add the orange coriander, cos I can, but I can see the reason why to leave it out.
Might leave it for a Hoegaarden Clone later on.
Cheers guys.

 

[petesbrew]

looks beautiful, the only thing i don't know about is the Melanoidin & i'd prolly use pils malt
but i like my saison's really light & dry

what temp are u going to mash at?

Just using what grain i've got in the garage. Might lower the melanoidin if it needs it.
mash temps... um, 65-67c? Still learning on the mash temps.

 

[ozpowell]

Just using what grain i've got in the garage. Might lower the melanoidin if it needs it.
mash temps... um, 65-67c? Still learning on the mash temps.

Make sure you ferment this one warm to bring out the spicy esters typical for this style - start off around 22C and let it rise to high 20's. Be interested to hear how this VSS yeast compares to 3724.

I'd mash at no more than 65C - try 63C - you want as many fermentables as possible to produce a dry beer.

I'm brewing one of these myself next - ordered ingredients yesterday.

 

[Stuster]

Make sure you ferment this one warm to bring out the spicy esters typical for this style - start off around 22C and let it rise to high 20's. Be interested to hear how this VSS yeast compares to 3724.

See I don't think you need to ferment this one so warm either. I fermented both batches I did with this yeast last year at around 25C and there were plenty of esters at that temperature. There's also no need to worry about this slowing down like 3724 does. Both were done after 2 weeks. The second lot was a bigger beer at nearly 8% and sat in secondary for a couple of months before I got round to bottling it. Ended up at 1002 down from 1064 for 97% attenuation. I opened one just last week and it's still drinking very nicely. Only one left.

 

[winkle]

I'm doing mine, mash at 64 C this weekend and will be fermenting at 20-22 C with the W3711 (thanks Stuster)

 

[Effect]

Batch Size - 23 liters
Volume Boiled - 36 liters

really? one losses so much to evaporation and boiling from 36 litres???

I hope not - cause I wanted to do 35ish litre batches with just a keggle (50ish litre)...

 

[petesbrew]

really? one losses so much to evaporation and boiling from 36 litres???

I hope not - cause I wanted to do 35ish litre batches with just a keggle (50ish litre)...

Not sure. It's something like 5-6 litres per hour isn't it? And I'm doing a 90min boil.
There's a few litres left in the bottom of the keg at the end too....
I may up it to about 40litres, but I'll see when I get there.

 

[petesbrew]

Struth, time flies when you're procrastinating.

Well I've been given the go ahead for a Saison Brewday this friday. (knocking up a quick knk APA on the side as well to utilise brewing time)
Typically the coriander seeds I had have been thrown out (past used by date), so I may just forget the fruit & spice additions all together.

After measuring grain I'll repost my final recipe soon.
Pete

 

[neonmeate]

i;m brewing one this weekend too - here's my recipe, for comparison - should get down to <1005 so round 5.5-6%

ume Transferred: 20.00 l Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 20.00 l Volume Of Finished Beer: 19.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.041 SG Expected OG: 1.048 SG
Expected FG: 1.010 SG Apparent Attenuation: 77.9 %
Expected ABV: 5.0 % Expected ABW: 3.9 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 39.3 IBU Expected Color: 4.6 SRM
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 % Approx Color:
Boil Duration: 70.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 26 degC


Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % When
Weyermann Pilsner 3.00 kg 75.0 % In Mash/Steeped
Weyermann Munich I 1.00 kg 25.0 % In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety Alpha Amount Form When
Slovenian Styrian Goldings 2.2 40 g Pelletized Hops 60 Min From End
German Tettnang 4.5 40 g Pelletized Hops 60 Min From End
Slovenian Styrian Goldings 2.2 50 g Pelletized Hops 1 Min From End


Other Ingredients
Ingredient Amount When


Yeast
Wyeast 3724-Belgian Saison

 

[Steve Lacey]

Well, a quick comment on the original recipe ... I thought your OG was too high. Regardless of style considerations it will just be too sweet a beer for that bitterness level. Don't go higher than 1.065 and use 500 to 750 g of sugar to get there. I'd also go for pilsener malt, but if you haven't got any, that's OK but if you use ale it makes my comment on gravity all the more important. Also go for that low 63-64 mash temp and drop the Melanoidin. A bit of Vienna or Munich won't hurt, but if not to hand, just straight base malt and sugar will be fine. I have found coriander and orange peel work nicely, about 8g of each, but just leaving the yeast to do its stuff is probably also a good call.

 

[bindi]

Well, a quick comment on the original recipe ... I thought your OG was too high. Regardless of style considerations it will just be too sweet a beer for that bitterness level. Don't go higher than 1.065 and use 500 to 750 g of sugar to get there. I'd also go for pilsener malt, but if you haven't got any, that's OK but if you use ale it makes my comment on gravity all the more important. Also go for that low 63-64 mash temp and drop the Melanoidin. A bit of Vienna or Munich won't hurt, but if not to hand, just straight base malt and sugar will be fine. I have found coriander and orange peel work nicely, about 8g of each, but just leaving the yeast to do its stuff is probably also a good call.

Oh I don' t know :icon_cheers: drinking a Saison now that was OG 1.070, had no Pilsner malt [then which is rare here] , has Melanoidin and Munich 1, ar, stuff it, here it is and it's a great drinker, it WILL be brewed again here.
24L

5.50 kg Pale Malt
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann)
0.20 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 2.92 %
25.00 gm Northern Brewer [9.70 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 22.8 IBU
15.00 gm Hallertauer [5.70 %] (30 min) Hops 5.6 IBU
15.00 gm Hallertauer [5.70 %] (15 min) Hops 3.6 IBU
0.15 kg Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 2.19 %
1 Pkgs Bire de Garde (Wyeast Labs #3725) Yeast-Ale

Not my usual recipe for a Saison but it works just fine, no spices as the yeast did it for me.

Edit: It is not sweet, a little dry mashed at 63c.

 

[neonmeate]

Edit: It is not sweet, a little dry mashed at 63c.

i have found with 3724 and 3711 (havent used the 3725 though) the mash temp is almost completely irrelevant to your final FG. I made a big 1080 OG saison once with a 69C mash (accident) AND 10% carahell and it still got down to 1005.... although i did add 10% sugar.

 

[petesbrew]

Well, a quick comment on the original recipe ... I thought your OG was too high. Regardless of style considerations it will just be too sweet a beer for that bitterness level. Don't go higher than 1.065 and use 500 to 750 g of sugar to get there. I'd also go for pilsener malt, but if you haven't got any, that's OK but if you use ale it makes my comment on gravity all the more important. Also go for that low 63-64 mash temp and drop the Melanoidin. A bit of Vienna or Munich won't hurt, but if not to hand, just straight base malt and sugar will be fine. I have found coriander and orange peel work nicely, about 8g of each, but just leaving the yeast to do its stuff is probably also a good call.

Too late, the grain is already cracked and in a big tub. Plus I love Melanoidin!
Will go for a low mash temp. Thanks heaps guys.

 

[warrenlw63]

I've got one chugging away nicely with Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale (many thanks Quintrex), it's already down from 1.052 to 1.012 after 5 days and there's still some airlock activity. This strain seems a lot more willing to work at lower temps than the Dupont strain (3724).

Grainbill 73.7% Pils Malt, 21.1% Bourghul & 5.3% Oats. Smelling and tasting promising.

While I prefer mine dry (seem to drink it mainly in summer) the so-called style is quite subjective. Half the fun is there are no rules so you can make them as you please.

The idea of a Saison Stout is really ringing in my mind. Must do it one day. :chug:

Warren -

 

[eric8]

This is the recipe I was thinking of doing.
Ingredients
6.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC)
Grain 90.28 %

0.35 kgMunich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC)
Grain4.86 %

0.35 kgWheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC)
Grain4.86 %

45.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60 %] (60 min)
Hops 19.2 IBU

30.00 gmHallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (15 min)
Hops5.1 IBU

20.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60 %] (5 min)
Hops1.7 IBU
WLP 565 Belgian Saison 1

Not sure if I should add some sugar or not though.