Saflager S-23

[MattC]

Hey all, im just a beginner brewer however I wish to understand the science behind brewing to be able to brew beers that make my mates jealous and me proud. I have just recently put down a brew that was based on a stella artois recipe.

I used the following;
* coopers premium selection pilsner
* 1kg Body brew (600g dex. & 400g maltodex.)
* 500g light booster (250g light dry malt & 250 maltodex.)
* saaz hops (in infusion bag)
* 1 sachet of saflager s-23 yeast

I have used the standard kit yeast in my three previous brews and these have bubbled along quite nicely. However I read that yeast can contribute up to 30% of the flavour of your beer and can be the difference between an OK beer and a great beer.

My problem is that I re-hydrated the yeast for 10 min in tepid water before pitching it into the wort. Temp was approx 20 deg C. I tested the OG (1058 - by the way is this a bit high??) and then sealed the fermenter. Tested for a good seal and was OK.

Looked at the air lock this morning (10 hours later) and there was no action. Temp about 18 deg C, thought may be too high so wrapped cold towel around it. air lock has nearly moved all the way round!!!

Is this normal???

 

[matti]

yes quite normal.
Tip 1
Let the yeast hydrate about 20-30 minutes before pitching.
Tip 2
only allow temp variation of couple of degrees from yeast and wort.

Though most dry yeast takes off about 24-48 hours some may take about 3 day.

 

[Keifer]

Yeah thats a bit warm for that yeast, sounds like you dont have a fermenting fridge?
If you pitch at like 10-12c you want to add 2x packs of yeast.
1058 will be something like a 5-6 % beer, then more if you bottle it. Wether thats too much is up to you.

Not sure what you mean about the airlock moving around??

 

[MattC]

What I meant was that it looks like the fluid in the airlock has moved all the way around is nearly ready to bubble for the first time. Does that make sense?

 

[Sammus]

yeah sounds pretty normal. my first couple lagers didnt fire for 36 hrs. they were at only 10C though.

 

[MattC]

yeah sounds pretty normal. my first couple lagers didnt fire for 36 hrs. they were at only 10C though.

Am i doing the right thing with that recipe and that yeast though?? What do you do with the kit yeast?? flush it down the toilet?? is it that bad? :chug:

 

[Maple]

Yeah, I'd slowly bring your temp down. As for the yeast that came with the kit...Keep it as a last resort until you have built up your yeast farm. Heaps of good info here on harvesting your yeast and washing it...

Maple

 

[citizensnips]

Most likely if you can only ferment at those higher temperatures your better of using the kit yeast because they are designed to ferment at those temps and still produce the lager character where as an S-23 (true lager yeast) is made to be fermented around 10-12 degrees and will give a better lager.

 

[MattC]

Most likely if you can only ferment at those higher temperatures your better of using the kit yeast because they are designed to ferment at those temps and still produce the lager character where as an S-23 (true lager yeast) is made to be fermented around 10-12 degrees and will give a better lager.

How do you ferment at those temps? (10 - 12) in a fridge???

What other yeasts can i use??

what about harvesting and cultivating yeast from a bottle of coopers pale ale?

 

[MattC]

Hey folks, got up this morning and still no action in the fermenter.

Temp about 18 degrees C

Should I pitch another sachet of saflager s-23 or do something else???

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Hey folks, got up this morning and still no action in the fermenter.

Temp about 18 degrees C

Should I pitch another sachet of saflager s-23 or do something else???

When did you pitch the yeast (like how many hours ago). Are you relying only on the airlock for signs of fermentation ?

 

[PostModern]

Lagers are bottom fermenting yeast, so you might not see a krausen. At that temp, tho, you probably will. Give it a little more time, say until this evening. If there's no action, pitch the kit yeast. At worst, they'll both come alive and start fermenting.

Also, the 650g of maltodextrin in your beer is not going to be nice. Prepare for a slick tasting beer "served with music" Light dry malt and ~maybe~ some dextrose would be good with that kit. The extra body with no flavour that maltodrextrin gives might not work. However, I've not used it as it makes me fart like a pig, so it might not be too bad. Oh, next time, ditch the hop bag. Just chuck the pellets in. They'll sink to the bottom before the show's over.

 

[barry2]

I have used S23 on my last 2 brews which were Black Rock Pilseners.At around 12c one brew started pushing gas through the airlock 18 hours after adding the rehydrated yeast and the other took 24 hours longer although '"foam"was appearing on the surface 18 hours after adding the yeast.
You may be able to get the temp down by putting bottles of frozen water next to the fermenter and covering the lot with a carton plus other insulation (blanket etc.)
Last month I made a Coopers Brewmaster Pilsener plus DME 700g,Dextrose 250g,Malto Dextrin 250g
and the OG there was 1050 so your reading sounds in line as you have more additions.I used Saflager 34/70
yeast on that brew and it produced a nice crisp flavour.
I noticed you have a lot of Malto Dextrin so will be interesting to see how powerful the head on the beer is.
The S23 causes a bad smell as fermentation takes place.
Check the use by date on the S23 packet.
I had a brew where the water in the airlock was showing a level as you described.I reseated the grommet as there may have been a slight leak there.

Good luck

Barry

 

[MattC]

hey all

there is the smallest bit of movement in the airlock. However there is the smell of rotten eggs in the fermenter. I read that this is common for pilsner or lager or saflager s-23 yeast cant remember

I will endevour to cool it down with towels and iced water

keep in touch all. This advice is a big help for a beginner like me

 

[matti]

good luck and read more.
650g maltodextrine?
FSWWYTO?
Faaaaaart..... psssssssst
200g max with kits and less with brew enhancers.
its there to help you with head retension

Sorry for the tech talk.
maltodextrine is used they same way as stabilisers.
It gels your beer.
result could be either
you wont be able to absorb the fluids or rehydrate to the buggery
better off trying to hop your beer
confusing? just ignore me

Ok edited the beer will be fine part from above.
If possible bring the fermenteation down to 15-16.
The result will be rather fruity unless yuo can bring it down to 12-14

 

[MattC]

good luck and read more.
650g maltodextrine?
FSWWYTO?
Faaaaaart..... psssssssst
200g max with kits and less with brew enhancers.
its there to help you with head retension

Sorry for the tech talk.
maltodextrine is used they same way as stabilisers.
It gels your beer.
result could be either
you wont be able to absorb the fluids or rehydrate to the buggery
better off trying to hop your beer
confusing? just ignore me

Ok edited the beer will be fine part from above.
If possible bring the fermenteation down to 15-16.
The result will be rather fruity unless yuo can bring it down to 12-14

Dead set? well ill be f&$@#d got the recipe based on stella off the net.
see my first post for this topic. This is what they said to use. Cant remember where i got it from though. What would you recommend??

 

[matti]

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/pdf/SaflagerS-23.pdf
You won't know until it finnished.
Remember this forum incl. meself is ther for opinions and you need to work out what is best for yourself.
No brewery is going to release the exact recipe.
The recipe you got just seems a bit extreem in the addition of maltodextrine.
Too late to fix it no. It might turn out ot a drop that you really like.
Remember that your taste can not be changed by opinion lol
Cheers and have a brew
Woh another try for Meplbourne

 

[MattC]

I just found the site that told me to use 650g of maltodextrin

they say to use 1 kg body brew ( which i believe is 600g dextrose and 400g maltodextrin) and 500g of light booster ( which is 250g malto. and 250g light dry malt)

Is this all correct??? who is trippin here, me or this web site???

http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/webcontent40.htm

 

[matti]

got me buggered!? never used their products.
you could be correct,,, then again...
either way it may be worth out to find out for the future.
My first brew was a Morgans bitter kit with brew enhancer42 from brewcraft using Saf-04
It kicked arse on VB.
I have progressed since lol.

 

[grod5]

MattC,

I am no expert but I think that I would take a gravity reading for peace of mind. If the reading is lower than the OG just let it go and keep it cool around 12 deg if you can.

If the reading is the same as OG, give it a stir with a sanatised spoon and check in a few days.

The S-23 will ferment at the high temps that you have and is probably doing so right now. Dont rely on airlock activity as seals on some fermentors aren't coplete.

The first thing on this forum I found to be true was the advice of, "Don't Panic", and how true it was. Things take time and lagers brewed at the lower temps take even longer.

g