Safale: S-04, strikes again!

[user 31093]

Cheers fletcher - I've got some US-05 on hand but no malt for it to eat!

 

[fletcher]

Cheers fletcher - I've got some US-05 on hand but no malt for it to eat!

for a starter? do you have a popper/juice box? use that, it's about 1.040ish

EDIT: with no preservs, added sugar and **** obviously

grab one cheap and use that instead. works a treat. chill and decant when done and then pitch slurry

 

[user 31093]

for a starter? do you have a popper/juice box? use that, it's about 1.040ish

EDIT: with no preservs, added sugar and **** obviously

grab one cheap and use that instead. works a treat. chill and decant when done and then pitch slurry

Nah mate, no juice on hand either... I've got is some apples I'm turning in to apple cider vinegar, somehow I don't think I want this in my beer :blink:

 

[fletcher]

late night 7-11 run? haha

all good mate, just trying to brainstorm for ya someone on here once gave me that great tip. it's perfect for starters - obviously you wouldn't want the juice in the beer but for a later-decanted and pitched starter..perfect!

 

[user 31093]

I'll certainly keep it in mind, I've been working all evening else might have ducked out to the IGA...

I'll be out and about tomorrow night might get a chance to get things going but I'll have other stuff being delivered on Friday anyways so I'll have plenty of malty goodness if I don't get to it tomorrow.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Thought I'd re-activate this thread than start another one.


I've just started drinking a batch in which I used S-04 for the first time and I'm finding that the batch is completely lacking in hop bitterness and flavour.

It's meant to have 51 IBUs, but it would be lucky to have 1.

During ferment it went off like a bomb, very vigorous with krausen leaking out from under the glad wrap. Once fermentation had slowed, I replaced the glad wrap with some clean stuff. It's possible that I've introduced an infection, but I wouldn't have thought so.

I've just come of a keg of wheat beer, so taste buds should be picking up the bitterness.

Is it possible that S-04 is stripping the hop flavours and bitterness?

 

[Dan Pratt]

^ I just used a S04 in a IPA to get more fruity ester and hop character from the beer and it came through. Have been using US05 for most of those style and will soon be trying liquid WLP002 to see how that fares. Stone brewing and Brewdog to name a couple of high quality brewery's from abroad use English strains to get the bitterness and hop character to come through aswell and they have perfected it.

What was your OG, IBU and hop schedule like?

 

[Black Devil Dog]

OG 1053
FG 1008

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.75 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) ( Grain 1 60.8 %
1.00 kg Munich 1 Malt (Weyermann) (17.7 EBC) Grain 2 16.2 %
0.60 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 Grain 3 9.7 %
0.50 kg Caramunich 1 Malt (Weyermann) (110.3 EBC Grain 4 8.1 %
0.20 kg Cara-Pils Malt (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 5 3.2 %
0.12 kg Acid Malt (5.9 EBC) Grain 6 1.9 %
35.00 g Fuggles [3.52 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 13.9 IBUs
30.00 g Pride of Ringwood [5.80 %] - First Wort Hop 8 19.6 IBUs
20.00 g Fuggles [4.98 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 7.9 IBUs
20.00 g Styrian Goldings [3.80 %] - Boil 30.0 mi Hop 10 6.0 IBUs
10.00 g Fuggles [4.98 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 1.9 IBUs
10.00 g Styrian Goldings [4.80 %] - Boil 10.0 mi Hop 12 1.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) Yeast 13 -




Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Protein Add 35.83 l of water at 55.3 C 53.0 C 5 min
Sacc Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 63.0 C 63.0 C 45 min
Sacc Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 72.0 C 72.0 C 15 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 78.0 C 78.0 C 15 min



Another thing is that it's not very clear, I always thought S-04 was high flocculating. i often use gelatin to clear my beers, but didn't worry about it this time. I C.C'd for about 2-3 weeks.

Pour my first beer and it's cloudy and then lacks the hop backbone I was after.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Do you normally FWH ? I recently used it on a IPA and used columbus to 35ibu and it was very rounded compared to usual boil additions of that hop. However the 30m addition should have seen some sharper bitterness.... did you adjust your water with Gypsum ? ( not sure if you do that )

My SO4 floculated great and it was a bit concerning as I'm so used to US05 having around for a few more days but I went on to dry hop it heavy and its now a hop hazed beer, Id go ahead with the Gelatine as per normal.

Its hard to say if its the yeast that has affected the bitterness outcome, maybe someone that has used S04 like a religion can advise.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Thanks Pratty, I FWH pretty much all my beers now, I've done 60min etc, but I've settled on FWH as my default bittering. I like the mellow bittering effect it (usually) has on my beer.

I don't adjust with gypsum, actually, I don't do any water adjustments, other than Acid malt.

The beer tastes quite ok, it's just very malt forward and that's not what I was expecting.

 

[Pogierob]

I will never use 04 again. I have lost three batches to it.
Granted I know a hell of a lot more now than back then but thrice bitten. ......

 

[Dan Pratt]

Thanks Pratty, I FWH pretty much all my beers now, I've done 60min etc, but I've settled on FWH as my default bittering. I like the mellow bittering effect it (usually) has on my beer.

I don't adjust with gypsum, actually, I don't do any water adjustments, other than Acid malt.

The beer tastes quite ok, it's just very malt forward and that's not what I was expecting.

It's possible your water was higher in chloride than normal and the malt was bought forward. You should look into the water to see the ppm for the 6main minerals. My water already has a great balance of 35ppm of sulphate and chloride which is great for my wheats and dark beers, but when it come to lighter beers and hoppy beers they need to be adjusted.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Yeah, not happy with S04. Windsor, M79 are better as far as dry yeasts go.

But..... it mightn't be the yeast but water.

I'd been having problems with the right bitterness and hoppiness in my beers. Got a copy of the local water profile, some brewing salts and quickly solved the problem.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Cheers for the tips on water, It looks as though it's an area of my brewing that can't be ignored any more.

 

[Markbeer]

I always had probs with S04 attenuation.

Now I pitch big, aerate and warm it up thru the ferment.

Had a RIS go from 1115 to 1030 in 3 days.

 

[contrarian]

I use s04 a bit and really like it as a yeast, it does drop out a bit prematurely at times but a good swirl and a bump in temperature has always got it to finish the job for me.

 

[stakka82]

Yeah have been in and out of love with s04 but at the end if the day it is a solid yeast if using in the right styles

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I was using S04 for british beers.

But I find its profile too mellow for it. M79 does that for me - gives me a good profile to my tastes.

If I want something a bit more reliable - Notto will do it for me and quicker.

If I want something less attenuative - Windsor.

 

[dago001]

I brewed an Pale Ale with it the other week. It was more of an APA than anything else. Turned out pretty good. Didnt do any water adjustments, in fact I didnt use any additives at all as I have run out of brewbrite.
I normally pitch 2 or 3 packs per 36 litres, then half the yeast cake and ferment another brew on the cake.
Cheers
LB

 

[Not For Horses]

What temps do people use S04 at?
In my experience, anything less than 20 is not ideal. 22 is about where you need to be.
It is a great yeast once you know how to use it. Especially for malty amber ale, brown ale or stout.

 

[dago001]

I brewed my Pale at about 16 deg, which is the temp in the kitchen. I havent used it for a brown ale for a while, but the last one would have been around 18 deg and didnt have any issues with it. I have gone from not liking it, to be comfortable with it, which may be more to do with improving my rig and process, more than the yeast. However, as I said before, I always pitch more than recommended, so that may be the real answer here. Doing the same with S23 atm, which is a yeast I said I would never use again, so it will be interesting to see the results.
Cheers
LB

 

[Vini2ton]

I reckon that Irish Ale wyeast is a cracker for high gravity beers. Also a raft of liquids that far surpass 04 for what you are doing. Ringwood Notto !968 1028 have all been good to me.

 

[TimL]

Saf 04 can't be too bad a yeast as the majority of english micros either use it or notty according to jims beer kit,just drinking a beautiful dry stout i made with it now,always rehydrate and haven't had attenuation problems with it for years,great in dark beers

 

[Weizguy]

I will never use 04 again. I have lost three batches to it.
Granted I know a hell of a lot more now than back then but thrice bitten. ......

I hear that a poor tradesman blames his tools.

Or, there are no bad yeasts, just bad brewers.

Maybe it was a bad batch of S-04?

 

[black_labb]

I hear that a poor tradesman blames his tools.

Some tools require superior skills to be used effectively. Highly flocculant yeasts tend to drop out before FG if yeast health isn't great where less flocculant yeasts are more forgiving. That's why US05 is known the be more forgiving than S04.

I find that I am often quite lazy when it comes to handling dry yeast where I put more effort into liquid yeast. I 'll just chuck to dry in and expect perfect results where the liquid I'll do a few batches with the same yeast to get my moneys worth and as a consequence I'll do as "starter" of 1-2L in the fermenter 12 hours before pitching (from the cube so timing isn't an issue).

I reckon that Irish Ale wyeast is a cracker for high gravity beers. Also a raft of liquids that far surpass 04 for what you are doing. Ringwood Notto !968 1028 have all been good to me.

so4 is the dry version of 1968 if I'm correct.

 

[Vini2ton]

Heard said that so4 is whitbread, but then again I hear a lot of things. Never used whitbread, but have used so4 and 1968.

 

[black_labb]

Heard said that so4 is whitbread, but then again I hear a lot of things. Never used whitbread, but have used so4 and 1968.

Just did a search and you seem to be right. I don't know where I got the 1968 and S04 being the same from.

 

[Vini2ton]

Just did a search and you seem to be right. I don't know where I got the 1968 and S04 being the same from.

I want to get some whitbread now and see what it does. Most of those pommie yeasts just need a damn good thrashing.

 

[Markbeer]

I have always used it at 18 or less.

What esters do you get from it at 22 degrees?

Considering a brown fermented high.

What temps do people use S04 at?
In my experience, anything less than 20 is not ideal. 22 is about where you need to be.
It is a great yeast once you know how to use it. Especially for malty amber ale, brown ale or stout.

 

[nala]

I have only used this yeast for the past 8 years, I find that having now brewed in excess of 100 brews and never experienced a bad or under attenuated beer with this yeast I would ask myself if the problem is something else.
The instructions on the package does not require or recommend rehydrating. If you are doing something other than what is recommended by the manufacturer then you can only blame yourself and not the yeast.
I sometimes smile to myself when I read about the brewers who criticize a yeast and draw comparisons with other yeasts which are considered better, probably because they are more expensive and have never done a side by side comparison.
If there was a challenge to find the best overall performing yeast, SO 4 would win hands down...no affiliation !!