Safale S-04 Ale Yeast Off Flavours.

[Jimboley]

I make the coopers Cerveza kit all the time for my mate who like water beer

The Coopers Cerveza packet yeast is a combo yeast IMHO,
Just open one up and you'll see a mix of ale & lager yeasts
The best results for this yeast are to ferment at 18-20C for 1st 5 days then raised to 24C for further 4 days
Lager for 3 weeks in keg or 5 weeks min in bottle.
That sulphur banana aroma/flavour will dissipate in this time.

This and there Euro Lager are the ONLY commercial kit yeast that I use.

:icon_cheers:​

 

[QSR]

Are you talking flavour or aroma?
Hope this may be of help. This is about banana aroma.
Taken straight out of "The Homebrewers Answer Book" ( with minor changes as to not infringe on copywrite )

The banana aroma is associated with the ester isoamyl acetate. In general, ester production increases when wort aeration is low. Another factor is temperature. Generally, higher temperatures lead to more esters in the finished beer. Yeast strain also has a great influence on aroma; some strains are known to produce more isoamyl acetate than others, for example, weizen strains.
Finally, there is wort original gravity . Ester levels increase with wort gravity. Aerate the wort well and try to keep your fermentation temperature less than 24 degrees C for ales.
Aging Temperature has no effect on ester production.

I would suggest you buy this book - very informative as far as I am concerned.
I would also guess that your LHBS ( Craig ) supplied that yeast to you knowing true well that you did not have the means to control your temperature for the correct use of a "lager" yeast........and is therfore not such an idoit as others have said. He supplied you what was suited for the temperature climate you are fermenting in.

 

[bum]

I would also guess that your LHBS ( Craig ) supplied that yeast to you knowing true well that you did not have the means to control your temperature for the correct use of a "lager" yeast........and is therfore not such an idoit as others have said. He supplied you what was suited for the temperature climate you are fermenting in.

Bull. ****. S04 is the obvious choice non-lager yeast for this style? Ridiculous. Even the yeast in the tin would be better. LHBS owner is an *****.

 

[benno1973]

I would also guess that your LHBS ( Craig ) supplied that yeast to you knowing true well that you did not have the means to control your temperature for the correct use of a "lager" yeast........and is therfore not such an idoit as others have said. He supplied you what was suited for the temperature climate you are fermenting in.

If he wasn't an *****, he would have supplied US05 or Nottingham yeasts - equally neutral lager like yeasts, rather than the fruity S04. Craig isn't necessarily an *****, but maybe doesn't know the characteristics of:
a. lager yeasts; and/or
b. S04

 

[QSR]

Each to their own.

There is nothing saying that you can not make a lager style into an ale style..........have you tasted this beer using S04 ( I doubt it ). I have and it did not taste too bad at all

 

[bum]

Did Craig tell you to do it?

 

[benno1973]

There is nothing saying that you can not make a lager style into an ale style..........have you tasted this beer using S04 ( I doubt it ). I have and it did not taste too bad at all

Absolutely. Didn't mean to offend, was just saying that if you're looking to make a Mexican Cervesa (like Corona) you'd want a neutral yeast. S04 will give you a completely different beer. Not to say that's wrong, but most people buying the cervesa kit would be looking to make a Corona clone, or something similar.

 

[ballzac]

Considering that S-23 may be the first choice of lager yeast for people who are currently using other Fermentis yeasts (such as S-04), it may be worth mentioning the S-23 can throw some pretty fruity flavours - such as pineapple - too. It can work really well, but would not be any more appropriate for a corona clone than S-04. Just throwing that out there

 

[QSR]

Naa, Kaiser Soze.....( and bum for that matter ) it takes more than that to offend me.....cheers :beer:

It is that I am pretty sure that Mitch089 was given that yeast because he was not able to control the fermenting temperature required to do fermentation with a lager yeast. Hence why he was given an ale yeast. No, bum, Craig did not tell me to say anything. If Mitch wanted to keep to style, he would find a means to control his fermenting temperature for the appropriate use of a lager yeast for that style. Until that stage his choices are limited a little, so therefore he is making it to as close to style as HE POSSIBLY can given his temperature/climate and conditions he is confined to. As I said, I have tried Craigs beer with S04 and it was not too bad - I am not saying it is the best yeast to use but it STILL made a nice drinkable beer.
If Craig had of given him a lager yeast when he knew he could not control lager temperatures - then I would call him an idoit.
And saying any of this is ********* or you can not do it, is simply a case of severe TUNNEL VISION.
By the way Mitch089.......what yeast do you use in your pizza bases............and say hello to your boss ( Peter ) for me :kooi:

 

[benno1973]

If Craig had of given him a lager yeast when he knew he could not control lager temperatures - then I would call him an idoit.

Yep, that's a worse crime. I hear my LHBS all the time giving noobs advice to use S-23 for a cleaner ferment in their kits, when it's plain that they have no temp control. The only thing I'd say about this is that US05 or Nott would be a far better recommendation than S04 for a Cervesa kit, but I'm not saying that S04 would produce an undrinkable beer.

 

[QSR]

I do agree on the US05.

 

[bum]

It is that I am pretty sure that Mitch089 was given that yeast because he was not able to control the fermenting temperature required to do fermentation with a lager yeast. Hence why he was given an ale yeast.

Not questioning that. What I'm questioning is your assertion that S04 is the best yeast for that application. There is no reason that a LHBS that carries S04 wouldn't have a better alternative on hand. And the fact that he (LHBS owner) chooses to use this yeast in his own beers just seems to underscore the fact that he might not know what he is doing.

No, bum, Craig did not tell me to say anything.

Just wanted to point out that it was absolutely not my intention to suggest such a thing. I was asking if it was Craig who told you to use S04 with that kit yourself (as at that point it seemed to me like you were talking about your own beer, not Craig's). I do think that recommending that yeast is bad advice but it is definitely not my intention to slander the guy (and yourself) with such an accusation.

And while we're on the topic of bad advice related to this yeast - why has the OP been allowed to walk out of the shop thinking it is ok to run this yeast at 26C?

 

[QSR]

No bum ( no bull either )

I have not made this beer myself - I have tasted Craigs beer of this and I don't recall it tasting or smelling of bananas.
I dont recall ever using s04 in any of my brews, and I never anywhere said it was the best yeast to use.

I would bet my left nut that the OP was never told to ferment at that temp in the first place.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the recommended fermentation temperature on the packet??

Safale (S04) A well-known, commercial English ale yeast, selected for its fast fermentation character and its ability to form a very compact sediment at the end of the fermentation, helping to improve beer clarity. This yeast is recommended for the production of a large range of ale beers. Recommended fermentation temperature: 15C - 24C.

 

[bum]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the recommended fermentation temperature on the packet??

Safale (S04) A well-known, commercial English ale yeast, selected for its fast fermentation character and its ability to form a very compact sediment at the end of the fermentation, helping to improve beer clarity. This yeast is recommended for the production of a large range of ale beers. Recommended fermentation temperature: 15C - 24C.

Thank you for taking the time to correct yourself. Very considerate of you! 22C/26C is not the same as 15C/24C.

 

[QSR]

I do not have to correct myself at all...........you need to read the original posters post again......and read it very, very slowly this time and you will see that it was actually Mitch089 that had said 22C/26C

 

[bum]

I don't even know where to begin to give up.

You're talking to Jimboley?! Jimboley is his own LHBS owner. **** me drunk!

Mitch089 is the OP. The OP we're trying to help. Bloody Nora.

 

[manticle]

Bananas and 26 degrees sounds about right, regardless of yeast.

 

[QSR]

Maybe you should give up.
You make me laugh you goose!
Jimboley is in Western Australia
Jimboley is NOT his own LHBS owner. **** me drunk!

Let me know if this is too fast for you!

Mitch089 ( the original poster ) is in Queensland - about 30km outside Brisbane which what he said in one of his posts and 30kms places him exactly where there is another LHBS owner called Craig who knows Mitch and is aware of Mitch's concern of that yeast. Google is your friend - Google a map of Australia and you will hopefully work out that Yangebup in Western Australia is a little more than 30 kms outside Brisbane Queensland. Mitch was just talking to Craig about it yesterday.

Someone stop give bum any more beers tonight............he doesn't need it.........Bloody Nora :drinks:

 

[QSR]

I will let you in on another little secret bum.
Are you ready................I have been referring to Mitch089 original post all along ( after all it is his topic ). I was never talking or replying to Jimboley.

 

[dr K]

The Coopers Cerveza packet yeast is a combo yeast IMHO,
Just open one up and you'll see a mix of ale & lager yeasts

I would be really interested to know how to tell visually the difference between ale and lager yeast.

Anyway, S04 is a great yeast, it produces clean English style ales, a hint of ester but generally subdued especially at lower fermentation temps. If you are getting banana overtones you have an infection, end of story.
Problem is of course that dry (true) lager yeasts are expensive and you really need to double the pitch rate of an ale yeast, you wil not make a (proper
) lager at fermentation temps above 15C, so you are better to use a clean ale yeast such as US05 or Nottingham.

K