Safale: S-04, strikes again!

[damoninja]

Hi all.

I love my S04, I've used it in a few darker brews now and it makes a yummy beer.

But does anyone else find it flops and give up at a magical number of 1.020 regardless of OG / fermentables? 3 brews now using S04, all different packets / batches / expiries...

Every calc I've used for every one of these brews reckons it should have gone down to 1.013, 1.017 etc but noooo S04 says up yours I'm quitting.

Not really complaining though, the sample I just took was delicious :icon_drool2:

 

[GalBrew]

I did, every time at 1.020. Until I started oxygenating the wort. Now I get it down to around 1.012.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I use it most of the time and don't have a problem with it, are you putting the correct amount into the fermenter?

 

[contrarian]

I've had it happen a few times but normally a swirl of the fermenter and bumping the temp up a few degrees gets it going again.

 

[schoey]

Are you rehydrating before pitching? I've used it probably a dozen times and the 2 times I didn't rehydrate it the beer under-attenuated. Good oxygenation helps too.

 

[AndrewQLD]

That's happened once or twice to me, it's a heavily flocculating yeast so I just gave it a gentle stir and it always finished off as expected.

 

[Not For Horses]

Had a brew get down to 1004 with a lower mash temp. Consistently gets to 1012ish for most beers I use it in.
Even had it get one of my ciders down to 998 from 1050.
Oxy schedule consists of pouring wort from a height into the FV.
Combination of rehydration and chucking the dry yeast straight in.

 

[Rubix]

Just brewed a pale ale on Wednesday night that I'm fermenting with S-04. OG was 1.045 and it's already down to 1.013. Mashed at 64*c, no re hydration and the only o2 addition came from letting it fall in the FV from the chiller. I'm fermenting a little warmer than normal though as I've got a Saison sitting beside it in the fridge. The heating gear is set to 23*c on the saison and I'm just using the radiant heat from that to heat the fridge (about 21/22*c)

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

I find so4 to be very temperature dependent. It does not like any drops in temperature.

The way I have used it without any problems (like the famous quitting at 1.020) it ti pitch it cool and the slowly raise the fermentation temperature after 2 days. I try to raise it 1C a day.

When I have baby sat it like this it has preformed really well.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Had mine in the Hot Water System cupboard, as it's Tassie and rehydrated.

Got down to 1.009.

 

[damoninja]

Thanks all

I always oxygenate the crap outta my brews first when pouring from cube second I smash it with a thing on a drill.
Tried the swish a few times, made no diff before.

I don't rehydrate, the fermentis instructions are conflicting the packet says pitch into wort the fact sheet says rehydrate. I have no worries with it kicking off, has krausen in 12 hours usually.

Temp may be the deal, I've done 1 at 17C and the other 2 at 19C so I might give it the swirl and increase the temp over a day or so.
I usually pitch at my desired fermentation temp by placing the cube in the fridge for 24 hours before transferring and pitching.

 

[damoninja]

Surprise surprise, again with the stuck fermentation.
Brewing this:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/77770-brewing-an-imperial-epic-boil-times/

Important bits:
Actual OG 1.100
Predicted FG 1.027

Pitched at 20 degrees, brewed at 18 degrees.

Actual SG after 7 days, 1.042
Swirled it and checked 24hrs later, about the same.

I used about 150mL (as per Mr Malty) of the yeast that I'd harvested from the previous brew in this thread and it took off within about 12-18 hours with a nice thick layer of foam which stayed there for about 6 days then died off.

I'm not worried about this finishing quick as I plan to leave it quite a while, but I really don't want it to finish THAT high...

If a daily swirl doesn't do the trick, should I pitch another thing of yeast? I've got 4 jars of it in the fridge and they're only 8 days old.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Might want to try Nottingham.

If you're doing a 1.100 beer (that's a big 'un), you really probably should have doubled the amount of yeast over and above the usual 1.040-1.055 OG beer. Did you pitch enough?

Maybe ramp up the temp a little and then rouse.

I'm going to try the M79 Morgan's craft series in a EPA (I think), and if this works out, I'll post results of it.

 

[damoninja]

According to Mr Malty I did, I pitched 150mL of the thick yeast slurry.

I didn't want to use a nottingham or US05 because it would have been a bit dry for the style I want.

I'd be happy if I can get it down another 10 points which I don't think is a huge ask considering it "should" go down to about 1.027

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

I don't think reusing a yeast that has had stuck fermentation issues before is a good idea.

I am not a yeast expert and am not sure if it is a trait that will be transferred from generation to to generation, but why risk it.

I only reuse yeast from a fermentation that I am completely happy with and would suggest that you do the same.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Forget the calculators would be my best advice, 150mL seems like an underpitch to me for that beer, I'd be going between 1-2cups (250-500mL) worth of harvested slurry. 3/4 to 1cup of yeast slurry is what I aim for with a "normal" ale (1.043 - 1.050).

"Thick" and "Thin" is subjective and thus throws the validity of the calculator out. Rule of thumb prevails!

EDIT: To add to what RelaxedBrewer suggests, perhaps you could build a starter with a low gravity wort (~1.030) to grow as much yeast as you like by stepping it up if you want to stick with the harvested stuff. Not too sure about traits would carry over if you step built a starter out of it. I have experienced nothing but increasing performance out of the same yeast through generations and building starters each time.

 

[damoninja]

The jars that have settled in the fridge have 150mL of yeast that has settled to the bottom, I pitched a full one of these (300mL) before it had settled and it took off in no time, had foam for 6 days then bam - stopped.

I haven't got anything to make another starer with now, would it work if I used a few 100mL of the wort that's currently in the fermenter?

Or

I've got 4 jars in the fridge, would it be OK to re-pitch 1 or more of these?

 

[malt_shovel]

Hi there,

Just a quick observation that this brew has 25% LDME of which the amount of fermentables is set during manufacturing to god knows what, but could guess around 70%. Add to that a further ~25% roast / crystal malt, and some flaked barley to boot and I would be pretty darn happy with 1.026 as FG. If you think it is a pooped out yeast, then using some of the high alcoholic beer in the fermenter to rehydrate / build a starter won't work. Also tossing in some that have been rinsed and chilled will likely not work either. It is too hostile an environment. If it were me, I would check your balance value (no IBU's in your recipe linked) against what the style would suggest, and leave it to condition for a while.

1.026 on such a big beer sounds about right to me, particularly with the amount of spec malts in there.

Cheers

Edit: Sorry, got it wrong, you are at 1.042.....

So if it is pooped out yeast, then you need to get some fresh and ACTIVE yeast in there. I don't think using the rinsed yeast will do anything at this stage. I recently mashed WAAAAY high on an IPA and had it stall at 1.040. Fresh yeast did nothing, all the fermentables were used up. Hang on until you can get an active starter going (I wouldn't expect using the current fermenting beer to be a good way to make a starter, though I have never tried it before) to check it is yeast health.

Cheers

 

[damoninja]

Ok so I have 2 options in regard getting ingredients for a starter:

1. Wait until Friday when I can have stuff delivered at a reasonable cost.
2. Visit LHBS (only one I can get to before closing time) and pay $9 for 500g LDME.

Will an extra couple of days sitting there half fermented hurt it any?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Just wait, it won't hurt it at all providing your glad wrap airlock/lid is well sealed.