S-04 not performing as expected

[jaypes]

First time I have used S-04 in a Brown Porter, I made the mistake of breaking by hydrometer just before pitching so i had no idea of the SG.

It has been in the fermenter for 17 days now at 18 Degrees - it went flat out for the first 5 days then stopped.

I just got a refractometer in the mail and checked it tonight - 1026, I think it is far from finished.

I have swirled the fermenter once a day for the last 2 days, and raised the temp to 20 Degrees. I didn't really want to pitch more yeast but I may have to for it to finish

Anyone had similar experiences with S-04?


Heres my recipe:

JP Brown Porter 1

Original Gravity (OG): 1.043 (°P): 10.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (°P): 2.8
Alcohol (ABV): 4.22 %
Colour (SRM): 21.3 (EBC): 42.0
Bitterness (IBU): 42.4 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

83.51% Pale Ale Malt
10.85% Crystal 60
5.64% Chocolate

2.2 g/L Fuggles (5.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.4 g/L Fuggles (5.7% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)

0.1 g/L Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 90 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Sounds exactly as expected. Search for other S-04 threads, then search for "rousing yeast" or "stuck ferment".

EDIT: missed the refracto bit - defer to Matho

 

[matho]

using a refractometer to read the fg of fermented beer requires you to have the OG and to use a converter to work out what the real FG is so using beersmiths refract tool if the OG was 1.043 then with a refract reading of 1.026 would give a FG of 1.015

cheers steve

 

[slash22000]

1) What Matho said

2) Did you calibrate the Refractometer with distilled water first?

3) I've found my Refractometer readings change wildly if there is any "crud" in the sample. For example, I made an oatmeal brown ale last weekend that read as 1.077 on my Refractometer after taking a few drops straight out of the kettle directly after the boil, but after I let a sample sit in a glass for a while so all the hops and break material and crap settled out, the reading was 1.065 :unsure: If there is yeast and crap in your Refractometer sample, it might throw off the reading

 

[jaypes]

I did calibrate it before using

I might keep the temp and swirling to see if it drops anymore, I did let the sample settle before taking a reading

Cheers fellas

Go the blues!

 

[manticle]

Did you see matho's post before slash's?
S04 seems to have a habit of stalling but using the correction calc for your refrac is the first thing to look at.

 

[fletcher]

i've had s-04 stall on me mate. don't know what else to report. it's the only dry yeast i've used that's stalled so far. not keen to try it again. maybe once more to give it a last chance but mine has stalled at 1.017 from 1.040 so wasn't too impressed. liquid yeast from now on for all my ESBs i think

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

I think S-04 can be sensitive to temperature drops. I have had it stall when i pitched it warm ~22C and brought it down to 17C.
It took off then can crapped out at 20-22. Nothing I did could get it to start again. I ended up pitching some US 05 to finish it off.

I have not had a problem with it when I have pitched at cooler temps.

 

[hoppy2B]

I've had WB06 die on me. Left it in the ferment vessel too long and it seems to have flocced out or just died and not carbed up the bottles.

 

[manticle]

I once ate a dandelion

 

[hoppy2B]

I once ate a dandelion

Were you out of poppies Manticle?

Fletcher said S04 was the only dry yeast he has had stall on him so far. I've had no trouble with S04 the couple of times I've used it. Its pretty cold this time of year and any ale yeast could cause problems. WB06 is an all-round crap yeast though, if you ask me, especially considering its meant to be a low floccer.

The best thing I've found for rousing a yeast that's flocced out and gone quiet is to pour into another ferment vessel through a sieve swilling up the yeast on the bottom with the last couple of litres, and then keeping it warm if you can. Going through a sieve seems to be a very effective way of aerating.

 

[Mattmedia]

I would say try and use a hydrometer, as a refractometer, as mentioned above, will give you readings that are not true once beer has been fermented.

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

The best thing I've found for rousing a yeast that's flocced out and gone quiet is to pour into another ferment vessel through a sieve swilling up the yeast on the bottom with the last couple of litres, and then keeping it warm if you can. Going through a sieve seems to be a very effective way of aerating.

Surely adding that amount of oxygen, that late in the process can not be good for the beer.

 

[GalBrew]

S-04 will usually 'stall' around 1.020. So taking that into account is it really stalling? That is what s-04 does, if you pester it with rousing and a temp rise you can persuade it to finish lower but it's a high flocking yeast.

If you really wanted the beer to finish dry, I wouldn't recommend s-04. Maybe if you pitched more and oxygenated a bit higher, but I would just go with something else.

 

[manticle]

Were you out of poppies Manticle?

Fletcher said S04 was the only dry yeast he has had stall on him so far. I've had no trouble with S04 the couple of times I've used it. Its pretty cold this time of year and any ale yeast could cause problems. WB06 is an all-round crap yeast though, if you ask me, especially considering its meant to be a low floccer.

The best thing I've found for rousing a yeast that's flocced out and gone quiet is to pour into another ferment vessel through a sieve swilling up the yeast on the bottom with the last couple of litres, and then keeping it warm if you can.

Thanks for clarifying your brief, initial, seemingly irrelevant post.
However pouring partially fermented beer through a sieve is one of the worst things you could do short of pissing in it.
I apologise, genuinely for how I respond to most of your posts but I do have a major issue with most of them (and your responses to anything critical from anyone). I will attempt to be more diplomatic in future but please try and give some more consideration to what you write. A lot of it is utterly baseless rubbish.

 

[mosto]

Hmmm....planning on using S04 in an English Pale Ale on the weekend. I'm pretty lax with taking readings, usually one to get OG then leave for two weeks or so and then another just before cold crashing to check the gravity is where I expect it to be. I might have to take a couple more during this ferment to keep an eye on it.

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

S-04 will usually 'stall' around 1.020.

This is not my experience when using this yeast.
Like I said before, I have only had a problem when I pitch warm and then slowly cooled it over a day or 2.

I have found that fermenting this yeast below 18C is nice and clean. Anything above this starts to get fruity (particularly if it is 20C or over).

If you do not have good temperature control I would not recommend this yeast. How ever if you do, it can be fantastic. Never had a yeast that flocculates as well and makes a very clear beer without having to do anything special.
I would bet that most people that have had problems with stuck fermentations have either pitch warm and the let it cool or have relatively poor temperature control and have dips at night time.

RB

 

[hoppy2B]

Surely adding that amount of oxygen, that late in the process can not be good for the beer.

No I wouldn't recommend doing that to a beer late in the ferment.

Some of the English ale yeasts that need rousing during fermentation might benefit from it though.

 

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

Next time, Instead of using S04 use Nottingham. Its still an English yeast and if you made a starter with it, the beer will be finished fermenting by the time you have finished pouring the starter in the FV.

NB* I may have exaggerated about the ferment time.

 

[GalBrew]

This is not my experience when using this yeast.
Like I said before, I have only had a problem when I pitch warm and then slowly cooled it over a day or 2.

I have found that fermenting this yeast below 18C is nice and clean. Anything above this starts to get fruity (particularly if it is 20C or over).

If you do not have good temperature control I would not recommend this yeast. How ever if you do, it can be fantastic. Never had a yeast that flocculates as well and makes a very clear beer without having to do anything special.
I would bet that most people that have had problems with stuck fermentations have either pitch warm and the let it cool or have relatively poor temperature control and have dips at night time.

RB

No problems with temp control here, I have used it a few times at a steady 18C. I usually get it down to an FG of 1.012-1.011, but not without watching it like a hawk. Compare that to us-05 or 1056, where it will consistently finish out at a lower terminal gravity with little input from me.