Rubbermaid/gatorade Biab Mod

[Pollux]

@Pollux - Not really. An urn is almost 300 bucks right ? I should mention that I already have the cooler which I got for free. A brass ball valve is $13 at bunnings. A few nuts and a brass threded tube is probbaly going to be another $20. A 20 litre pot is going to be another $20, so that's $53. As fot the swiss voile for the bag, well I wont count that because I would need it for an urn setup anyway. In saying that, I have been reading about your urn system setup and Im in awe, it seems great. Can you lend me a few hundred bucks ? :icon_cheers:

Well, if you got the cooler for free, that's a touch different, I still think you will have issues bringing a large quantity of wort to the boil on a stove top, I have a pretty powerful gas stove and even with a two burner straddle it used to take ages to boil 10L to the boil in a 15L pot, and once I got a decent boil on it was a fun game of making sure it stayed in the pot for hop additions.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

*sigh* I'm not aiming to represent a specific method in my next step of home brewing. I just want to make bloody beer that's a little bit closer to the real deal. BIAB, Two-Vessel, Three Vessel, Ten Weasles or 1200 Oompah Loompahs, call it what you will. This thread has been very helpful, in that I don't need to muck around with extra steps & gear, and can just get myself a pot and have my lovely & most talented partner stitch up a bag. And it would seem that a 'three vessel system' isnt really to any advantage over true BIAB (from what positive reports you BIAB guys are posting elsewhere), therefore I'll take the most simple route possible if yields arent compromised. I dont need bling, I don't need technicality, I dont need traditional methods, I just want bloody good beer, and have ample time to 'relax' on my weekends with this most rewarding hobby/interest/obsession. Ive kitted, Ive done extracts, Ive done hop schedules, I steep various grains, I mini-mini mini mash (does 200g count), Ive rice-maltosed, triple-sec'd, coriandered, mandarin zested, hugged my fermenter on cold nights, said goodbye to my active yeasties each morning, and drank. Mostly drank. Or drunk. Or drinked. But I have not BIAB'd, BIAB-Two/Three Vessel Crossover, Traditional Three-Vesseled, One-Bag-Fulled or anything else. How about a menage a trois of bags, in six otto bins ? Maybe I should aim for a sextet batch. I might even be able to incorporate a couple of brass nipples. Speaking of Madonna..................... don't get me started.

And that was done in my best Bill Hicks ranting voice. Please disregard all of the above paragraph if you dont have a grain or two of salt handy.

Plenty of salt on hand - but I feel the need to not use it.

People are picky about what they call things - because they want to give you accurate and good advice. If you want to brew with multiple vessels - then they would be doing you a disservice to tell you all about BIAB - If you want to BIAB, then they are wasting your time, or worse, giving you bad advice, telling you about mash tuns.

If - as it seems to be - you are unsure about the differences and why they might be important - then they need to know that as well.

At the end of the day, you seem to have garnered the info you wanted - and on the way it looks like people here have saved you some considerable time and at least a little expense. Heaving a *sigh* because you were required to learn one or two things so that they could; out of the kindness of their hearts assist you with the request you made for information - well, it seems a little less than gracious. Even if you try to make it funny by quoting Bill Hicks.

 

[Justin]

After the last few posts I'm not going to comment regarding system design, I follow Thristy Boys sentiments above.

Regard the rubbermaid cooler as fermenter, I personally think you'll be better off with your current fermenter. I dont think you understand whats going on in a ferment and what makes a good fermenter. The obviosu problems I see are:

1. It's insulated, making controlling the temp harder, not easier.

2. If the temp in the cooler starts running away on you and increasing from the natural heat generated by fermentation how do you plan to be able to cool it down. The benefit of a normal plastic fermenter is it will shed heat, you only start running into problems if it can't shed it quick enough or the ambient air is too warm making the heat loss less efficient. Thus a fridge, or water bath with ice etc. In this instance insulation is working against you not for you.

3. And conversely, if you beer is too cold, the insulation provides a barrier to being able to heat it back up effectively. You can add heat by putting it in a warmer place but again, the insulation is working against you. You want heat to go into the beer, insulation prevents that or at least makes it far less efficent at trying to get in. If you drop a heater (aquarium) into your beer, the temp heats up and then if fermentation start kicking you end up back at problem 2.

4. Head space.

Try it if you want but I think it's a step backward from the normal plastic fermenter.

 

[technocat]

Phew! I guess renegade has rested his case.


:unsure:

 

[Renegade]

But not my sore head from the million beers last night. Sorry chaps. :unsure:

 

[paulwolf350]

*sigh* I'm not aiming to represent a specific method in my next step of home brewing. I just want to make bloody beer that's a little bit closer to the real deal. BIAB, Two-Vessel, Three Vessel, Ten Weasles or 1200 Oompah Loompahs, call it what you will. This thread has been very helpful, in that I don't need to muck around with extra steps & gear, and can just get myself a pot and have my lovely & most talented partner stitch up a bag. And it would seem that a 'three vessel system' isnt really to any advantage over true BIAB (from what positive reports you BIAB guys are posting elsewhere), therefore I'll take the most simple route possible if yields arent compromised. I dont need bling, I don't need technicality, I dont need traditional methods, I just want bloody good beer, and have ample time to 'relax' on my weekends with this most rewarding hobby/interest/obsession. Ive kitted, Ive done extracts, Ive done hop schedules, I steep various grains, I mini-mini mini mash (does 200g count), Ive rice-maltosed, triple-sec'd, coriandered, mandarin zested, hugged my fermenter on cold nights, said goodbye to my active yeasties each morning, and drank. Mostly drank. Or drunk. Or drinked. But I have not BIAB'd, BIAB-Two/Three Vessel Crossover, Traditional Three-Vesseled, One-Bag-Fulled or anything else. How about a menage a trois of bags, in six otto bins ? Maybe I should aim for a sextet batch. I might even be able to incorporate a couple of brass nipples. Speaking of Madonna..................... don't get me started.

And that was done in my best Bill Hicks ranting voice. Please disregard all of the above paragraph if you dont have a grain or two of salt handy.

Dude, I think people are trying to help you make better beer, If you wanna do it your way then go right ahead. No one is bagging your idea, but it introduces more places for an error to occur and your beer to turn crap.

If you wanna all grain or BIAB, i do not think it can be done on a stove. Your best bet is to mini mash, as stated above, or to wait till you do have the gear, all I have is a 36L pot, a 2 ring burner and a regulator, (and a bag i sewed up) if you have a gas bottle you are in business for BIAB. What you are proposing is not going to work properly without 30L of hot water, and a pot to boil 30L of wort, (they can be the same pot) but I cannot see it working well the way you have described.

If you buy a 36L pot you can do either BIAB or your method and either will be just fine, but BIAB in a pot will be easier to manage.

I will call along with the others that a bit more research will help you to make better beer, there is a bit of sience to understand with regards to mashing. It is not hard, but ther is moreto it than: hot water in, mash, wort out.


Paul


******* way, way too slow. thirsty boy and several others in before me *******

 

[Justin]

Or you can scale everything down in size to suit what your stove can handle. Sure you wont make 25L of all grain with a 20L pot but you might pull off 15L batches.

The other option as mentioned above is to do a minimash and then make up the additional water and extract post boil. Lots of info to read out there that explains it all.

www.howtobrew.com

 

[Bribie G]

Mate there's nothing wrong with partials as a stepping stone. I still have a couple of cartons of my last partial that I'm going through.. it's a nice lagerish beer but I find that my all grain version is just that bit better. However it's miles ahead of a KnK.
It happens to be a Morgans Australian Pilsener plus a minimash of Galaxy malt and bumped up a bit with Pride of Ringwood and some Hallertau in the finish, US-05 ale yeast. Oh and some sugaz h34r:

I 'avoided' AG for six months till I had enough money to get the urn etc but don't regret waiting because If I had tried to go too early with makeshift and inefficient equipment I would have surely given up in frustration and gone back to kits n bits. Amortised over the thirty brews since early December it's added ten dollars per brew but probably only seven because many of my brews are cheaper than the old partials... the plain grain bill with bulk discount is usually the same as a Morgans Kit.... but of course, as you painfully realise, the problem is coming up with the clams in advance.

Same with kegging, I'm now leaning towards a tap of house lager and a tap of house ale on the go, but again I'm not going to go 'pov' with a clapped out old second hand fridge, fire extinguishers etc.. I'm saving for a decent new system with some nice taps etc. OK I'm a showoff :lol:

 

[Renegade]

Allright Im sober now, and man did I come across as a ****. Its all good food for thought, and I appreciate everyones comments. The single vessel system is appealing, and as Bribie G is successfully doing with an electric urn, I think I'll hold out for a while longer and get one myself, after all 300 bucks isnt that much of an investment.

In the interest of fostering community spirit, if any members out there (in Sydney) want to step up from kits, extracts etc and are ready to go ahead with a 3 vessel system, PM me if you want my Gatorade cooler. It's going for the very cheap price of $Free. It would be inappropriate for me to ask any money for it, considering I got it for nothing.

This opportunity is strictly for folks wanting to step up their brewing process from kits & extracts.

 

[paulwolf350]

mate, have a read of the BIAB threads on here, they are very good. I have brewed kits for over 12 years and have learned more in the last 5 months, than I ever knew. My kits are better, I am now doing mini mashs and BIAB, and i am going to build a 3 tier system to mash with as funds become available.

I have dome some classes with another all grainer and boy have I learned some stuff. Not sure of where you are at with your brewing, but as has been said you really need to be up to speed with your process and how it is going to affect your beer.

I know exactly how you feel, as I also have a 35 litre drink cooler, which I was going to use as a mash tun, and is now obselete. You might need to get some further advise on all grain brewing, and find out why what you were trying to do was a bad idea.

I personally think you are on the right track with the urn and BIAB, that is the closest method to what you were proposing, keep doing the kits with steep and hop boil till you can get the gear for BIAB, that what I am doing, just waiting on the grain mill now.

Anyway best of luck with your brewing

Paul

 

[Renegade]

In the interest of fostering community spirit, if any members out there (in Sydney) want to step up from kits, extracts etc and are ready to go ahead with a 3 vessel system, PM me if you want my Gatorade cooler. It's going for the very cheap price of $Free. It would be inappropriate for me to ask any money for it, considering I got it for nothing.

This opportunity is strictly for folks wanting to step up their brewing process from kits & extracts.

Only interest from one person so far, an experienced AG'er who's already set up with AG gear. It goes to him on Tuesday arternoon if no-one else gets to me before then.

 

[Mantis]

For the price of an urn you could get a 50L pot, 3 ring burner and reg I reckon (may be wrong here).

Thats what I have and making 25L BIAB batches is easy.

Check out the pics in my blog, link below, of my first biab brew. I just brewed my 14th today

I just wish now that I got a 70L pot instead

 

[Renegade]

Thanks Mantis, but being that space is at a premium, I like the pioneering efforts that BribieG has described elsewhere, and the urn tech is quite appealing.

 

[pdilley]

I BIAB AG in a Single Pot on the stove, but I would say the advice that it can not be done is good in general as most people have consumer kitchen setups and no multi-ring burners on their kitchen stoves.

Worst come to worst you can do what all my Chinese mates do and when the hot water heater goes bad they confiscate the burner underneath and rig it up on their kitchen stoves for heating up the Wok because our consumer stoves are pretty crap for heating Woks and getting enough BTUs so we can not stir fry, we more or less stir-simmer or stir-boil in Western kitchens

If you have a mutli-ring burner stove then you can be the exception as well and be able to BIAB on the stove. Moving is not an issue, and neither are fixtures or hoses as it siphons out of the pot extremely well and into the no chill cube.

Cheerio,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

I just wish now that I got a 70L pot instead

Man I got my eye on the 100L or 120L pot in aluminium its cheap as! hehe

But I'll make sure I force myself to be happy with what I got and keep this addiction hobby under control somewhat.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Renegade]

I BIAB AG in a Single Pot on the stove, but I would say the advice that it can not be done is good in general as most people have consumer kitchen setups and no multi-ring burners on their kitchen stoves.

Oh, do tell more please Pete? The consenus seems to be that a big pot just wont be heated to boiling point on a conventional stovetop. FYI I have an electric. Would love to know if you are practicing full brew or partial to do this.

Worst come to worst you can do what all my Chinese mates do and when the hot water heater goes bad they confiscate the burner underneath and rig it up on their kitchen stoves for heating up the Wok because our consumer stoves are pretty crap for heating Woks and getting enough BTUs so we can not stir fry, we more or less stir-simmer or stir-boil in Western kitchens

Funny that you mention this, only this morning I noticed a leak in our linen closet from the mains water inlet, a result of a new hot water tank being installed a week ago. And right then it dawned on me that I could have salvaged the old one for bits & peices. Too late now tho, the plumber took it at my insistence.

 

[3GumsBrewing]

Noticed that Bunnings had heaps of 7gal rubbermaid coolers for $99 today. (Bankstown)

I was after one of these for ages!

Cheers
DK

 

[pdilley]

Renegade: Full brew single batch. Double batch or more on my setup I would move to a dedicated restaurant grade burner. I also use restaurant grade pots from allquip so I wonder if stove issues are with cheap tinny thin metal pots?

Cheers,
Brewer Pete