Rubbermaid/gatorade Biab Mod

[Renegade]

As mentioned elsewhere, Im quite keen to step into partials once current supplies dwindle (two more brews fermenting, and another two brews worth of ingredients after that). Going down the BIAB path, and will be using a Rubbermaid/Gatorade style of water esky (the big 40 litre orange beasts).

After some suggestions on another beer forum, this afternoon i popped into Bunnings to pick up a ball-valve. DIDN'T get one, because what they had wasnt what I expected - I was thinking that the tap would be a take-apart unit, but these ones were one-piece. What I did get was a 1/2 inch brass nipple, which is basically a tube with a hex-nut in the middle and outer-threaded on each end.

Getting home, I pulled the original plastic tap & assembly out of the esky, and to my surprise it's not a threaded hole, its just a hole! You can even see the foam insulation. The nipple doesnt even sit snug.

Now, have I got the sizes right for this mod ?(on the other site I was told 1/2 inch fittings) and if so I need to find a method for securing the nipple in there permanently and securely. It will also need to seal the gaps from any moisture, becuase getting the foam wet is gonna lead to some rotting down the track.

Anyone here done this mod that can give me some guidance? Im thinking to secure it with lots of silicone, and of course attaching a nut onto the inside as well. Or have I got the wrong thing ? (If so, glad i didnt buy the ball valve I was umming & arring about)

I also think that this is too short overall, from the end to the hex nut is 15mm, and if I was to mount it with the hex nut on the outside of the vessel, that leaves a mere 7mm on the inside to attach a nut (on top of any silocone, wich might take away another mill or two.

 

[Cocko]

Hey Renegade,

Sounds to me like it ain't gonna work for ya? I may be wrong and mis-understanding your post...

If I were you I would get some threaded pipe, nut, washer and tap etc...

Something like this:
View attachment 27561

BTW: What has an Eski got to do with BIAB?

Cheers

 

[Renegade]

That would work great, - however I have no access to the gear for threading pipe (or such a small length of pipe). Any suggestions. Maybe I should speak to a plumber.

BTW: What has an Eski got to do with BIAB?

By eski, I mean insulated water dispenser. My idea is to heat enough water to 66 degrees for x amount of grain,then whack the bag and grain in for 60-90 mins. I am 'assuming' that with the amount of thermal mass, along with the cooler's insulation, the temps will be maintained long enough to do the job. After 90 minutes, put the bag into a second pot of water at the right temp for the final extraction (sorry, the terms are probably incorrect), then squeeze the bag out, add the liqor from the first extraction into the pot and start my boil.

Would be happy to know if this isnt the method before I start spening money

Edit: That's why I only bought the brass bit today, if its not appropriate, Im out of pocket a lousy two bucks, which I think I can manage

Edit take 2: Oh sorry, I didnt click on the pictire, I see that its threaded all the way not just at the ends. I can pick this sort of thing up easily I imagine, in short lengths, then just cut to size right ?

 

[Cocko]

Mate, I got all that you see in that pick from bunnings, including tap. A one piece will be fine especially being pre-boil sanitisation is not as critical...

The method you are looking at is closer to traditional 3 vessel AG than BIAB but will still work and put you in good stead for gear in the future... You should have bought your pot and burner first and you would be ready to BIAB!!

Anyways I hope this helps, gotta run!

Cheers

 

[eric8]

I agree with Cocko, definiately more like a 3 vessel system. What are you going to boil the wort in?

 

[jayse]

You want to look into making a manifold for the inside of the gatorade jobby joined up to the bulkhead, pretty standard and you'll find heaps of info on doing that.
Like others have said with this drink cooler your looking at making a mash tun with a seperate the kettle, so its not BIAB.

 

[Renegade]

I agree with Cocko, definiately more like a 3 vessel system. What are you going to boil the wort in?

Going to buy a cheapo 20 litre pot. Keep in mind I am only going to be doing partials, because I cannot afford a burner, regulator etc at this stage. But of course thinking of future expansion one day. And I am led to understand from reading stuff here that I'll have no chance of doing a full mash boil on an electric stovetop.

You want to look into making a manifold for the inside of the gatorade jobby joined up to the bulkhead, pretty standard and you'll find heaps of info on doing that.
Like others have said with this drink cooler your looking at making a mash tun with a seperate the kettle, so its not BIAB.

Manifold, that's for heating or cooling right? Sorry for the dumb questions, but I thought that the proposed method was more BIAB, being that I'll be using a bag Dont wanna harp on about being a pauper (Im really not, but theres other stuff that needs to account for my finances) but I wont be setting the cooler up with a false bottom either. The bag idea sounds good (and effective).

Also, being that i'll only be aiming for around 50% grain (and the rest extract) I'm hoping to avoid the need for fast-cooling systems, or even no-chill for that matter, and will instead rely on ice in place of water to bring my final wort down to pitching temp.

Guys, I really appreciate the comments, keep 'em rolling in if you have the time.

 

[sumo]

Manifold, that's for heating or cooling right?

Hey Renegade

The manifold describes a false bottom. My manifold is made from a stainless steel water hose you get from bunnings (600mm).

I started with BIAB and the theory is that you have one large pot, which you use to heat up your water to mash temp, insert grain in the bag in that pot and cover with blankets etc to keep at mash temp for the 60 min duration. Then extract bag and grain and leave the wort in there to start your boil.

You need to work out how much water the grain will absorb, then how much will boil off in the 60 min boil. My volumes worked out that for each kilo of grain I would add about 5 litres of water which included a 10~15% evaporation rate in the 60min boil.

I was lucky enough to get a keg from a local brewery free for a little help I gave them at tax time! I was able to add 33 litres of water at the start to cover the absorbtion and boil off to be left with 25litres in the fermenter.

Good luck with the partials!

 

[Cocko]

Renegade,

Forget a 20L pot now... well sort of.

You have your water cooler and will soon fit a tap yeah?

You need a 50L pot, aluminium is fine, and a way to boil it! During the boil hops additions etc..

Ok, I by all means don't wanna sound harsh but do you understand what you are trying to achieve?

My solid advice is; Understand what you wanna do in your head COMPLETELY, and then buy the gear you need to that!

Mate keep the Q's coming but you need to have the end goal insight and we will get you there easy....

Not much help probably but just trying to gain direction for ya..

PM me if you need!

:icon_cheers:

 

[jayse]

If you just want to BIAB a partial then all you need is the stock pot on the stove and the bag, no need for the drink cooler. The manifold is cheap to make your cooler into a mash tun, its simply copper tubing which you hacksaw some slits into, you could use some S/S braid, this replaces the false bottom.

 

[jayse]

Ok, I by all means don't wanna sound harsh but do you understand what you are trying to achieve?

My solid advice is; Understand what you wanna do in your head COMPLETELY, and then buy the gear you need to that!

Cocko has hit the nail on the head here, you have a bit more research to do as your a little lost with just the basics ATM.

 

[Pollux]

By the time you got your cooler + bits to make a tap + 20L pot which will probably struggle to boil on the stove you could have just bought a 40L urn and done BIAB that way........

 

[Renegade]

@Pollux - Not really. An urn is almost 300 bucks right ? I should mention that I already have the cooler which I got for free. A brass ball valve is $13 at bunnings. A few nuts and a brass threded tube is probbaly going to be another $20. A 20 litre pot is going to be another $20, so that's $53. As fot the swiss voile for the bag, well I wont count that because I would need it for an urn setup anyway. In saying that, I have been reading about your urn system setup and Im in awe, it seems great. Can you lend me a few hundred bucks ? :icon_cheers:

@jayse - I dont think I need a braid tube or a false bottom if Im using a bag, do I? My understanding is that this is to stop the grain husks blocking the tap outlet. And the bag will avoid that anyway.

@Cocko - I have been reading quite a lot about this, and I really thought I HAD understood completely ! Apart from unnesesarry steps maybe, how is my approach not going to work (genuine question, Im not being snarly - the written word for me just has a bad way about coming across)

If anyone can please pick apart the following steps, so I can better understand where I need to get to:

1. Bring 6 litres of water to 70 degrees or so.
2. Pour into Cooler, wait until the temp drops to 66 degrees.
3. Place bag of 2kg grain in the water, cover with lid.
4. Take off lid, stir every 10 minutes or so over 60-90 minutes, replacing lid each time.
5. Prepare another 6 litres of 70 degree water in the original pot (per point 1)
6. After 90 mins, pull bag out of cooler after squeezing, then drop into water (per point 5)
7. After 'x' time, pull bag out & squeeze
8. Add liqor from cooler into the pot, ie the primary extraction to the secondary rinse
9. Start the boil, hopping etc for 60 mins
10. Cool wort down in ice bath, add ice cubes, liquid goo, LDME, dex, whatever to reach desired pitching targets.
11. Wait a couple of weeks, bottle, wait another month or two, then DRINK :icon_cheers:

From what I gather by the feedback, this is mostly a wrong way to do it because it has irrelevant steps, right ? I should just 'mash' in a single stovetop pot, forget the rinse (sparge?) for any residual sugars not extracted out of the first soak, and just pull the bag out and boil away ?

A side point, and now probably off topic, but I would stll like to trick up the water cooler at least as an efficient temp stable fermenter, so any comments about the mod requirements would be good. I think Cocko's example is the way to go, but silicone to block up the hole, is that cool ?

@everyone - THANKS for taking the time o reply to these half arsed questions. :icon_chickcheers:

 

[smollocks]

From what I gather by the feedback, this is mostly a wrong way to do it because it has irrelevant steps, right ? I should just 'mash' in a single stovetop pot, forget the rinse (sparge?) for any residual sugars not extracted out of the first soak, and just pull the bag out and boil away ?

Yes, that's right. You've complicated things by adding the esky, and you don't really get any advantage over just doing everything in the pot. A pot will hold temperature just fine over a 60 minute mash if you insulate it properly. You also don't have to mess around with taps and bulkheads. I see no advantage to doing it your way, only complications and delays.

My advice is to start simple and just use the pot, and you can spend the extra time and money equipping the esky if you choose to upgrade to full ~20L batches at a later date.

 

[Cocko]

Mate it is not that your approach will not work it is just that you can utilise you gear and spending a lot better IMO.. and thats all it is an opinion! If you end up with a great beer who am I to question?

But you posted for advice so here it is:

Get 15-20L of water into the eski, at lets say 71c [Strike temp] Then add a 6kg grain bill, temp will probably drop to around 67c because of the temp the grain will absorb..

Leave it sit, stir sure, for an hour - 90 mins....
{While this is happening, heat up us much water as you can to about 75c}

Drain liquid out of eski into pot{trough your BAG or false bottom}, 50L, you should get about 10L-15L...

Add pre heated water to your the grain, still in eski - another 22L!

Leave for 10 minutes and then drain your eski again into your pot of 15L. so plus this 20L should have 32-35L! Yeah?

Then boil for an hour with hop additions! Drain to No-Chill and you have yourself a ready to ferment all grain!

Am I missing something here? are you dead set on using a bag?

Maybe others can help here but that is me!

 

[Renegade]

Am I missing something here? are you dead set on using a bag?

That's what mates used to say about my ex :unsure:

All good info, and youve all got me thinking to scrap the water cooler (eski - same thing right) and just look into the biggest pot that my stovetop can manage.

So, um, what's the biggest pot my stovetop can manage for BIAB ? Its a four burner electric element jobbie.

Still want to turn my rubbermaid into a fermenter at least

 

[smollocks]

Still want to turn my rubbermaid into a fermenter at least

You'll want to check that the plastic of your rubbermaid is food grade.

 

[Cocko]

So, um, what's the biggest pot my stovetop can manage for BIAB ? Its a four burner electric element jobbie.

Ok, Lets do a Partial:

Buy a 20L pot.

Get 2-4kg of grain.

Put CRUSHED grain in a stocking or a bag of muslin or voile etc...

Soak [MASH] crushed grain in water @ 66c for an hour!

Pull out bag with grain and have some beer coloured water in pot!

Bring that shit to a boil and do ya hop additions! 60,20,5 etc

THEN;

Take that water [Wort] with the boiled hops in it and tip it in your fermenter!

Add some LDME or what ever extract you have chosen! and water so the balance is about 1040-1050 SG!

Are ya with me here?

When temp is at about 25c, pitch yeast!

Ferment @ 20

Bottle!


We cool?

 

[Bribie G]

What you are basically planning is a three vessel system, first vessel being whatever you are going to heat the water in, second vessel being the insulated container or mash tun, and third vessel being the pot. So it's not really BIAB, it's a three vessel system where the bag is a bit of a tweak for keeping the spent grain enclosed so you can easily put it out into the compost. Good system as a three vessel job. Bags used in that way are common in the UK where I first started to brew.

However it's not a 'BIAB mod' at all, really, it's a three vessel mod with a bag addition.

 

[Renegade]

*sigh* I'm not aiming to represent a specific method in my next step of home brewing. I just want to make bloody beer that's a little bit closer to the real deal. BIAB, Two-Vessel, Three Vessel, Ten Weasles or 1200 Oompah Loompahs, call it what you will. This thread has been very helpful, in that I don't need to muck around with extra steps & gear, and can just get myself a pot and have my lovely & most talented partner stitch up a bag. And it would seem that a 'three vessel system' isnt really to any advantage over true BIAB (from what positive reports you BIAB guys are posting elsewhere), therefore I'll take the most simple route possible if yields arent compromised. I dont need bling, I don't need technicality, I dont need traditional methods, I just want bloody good beer, and have ample time to 'relax' on my weekends with this most rewarding hobby/interest/obsession. Ive kitted, Ive done extracts, Ive done hop schedules, I steep various grains, I mini-mini mini mash (does 200g count), Ive rice-maltosed, triple-sec'd, coriandered, mandarin zested, hugged my fermenter on cold nights, said goodbye to my active yeasties each morning, and drank. Mostly drank. Or drunk. Or drinked. But I have not BIAB'd, BIAB-Two/Three Vessel Crossover, Traditional Three-Vesseled, One-Bag-Fulled or anything else. How about a menage a trois of bags, in six otto bins ? Maybe I should aim for a sextet batch. I might even be able to incorporate a couple of brass nipples. Speaking of Madonna..................... don't get me started.

And that was done in my best Bill Hicks ranting voice. Please disregard all of the above paragraph if you dont have a grain or two of salt handy.