Rinsing Yeast (in Pictures)

[Wolfy]

Interested in whether people are growing starters and then harvesting and storing rather than post fermentation harvest and rinsing? I have been doing this for a while, just bottled a dozen 75 ml jars with Ringwood. Is there any issues doing it this way I need to be aware of? Also, curious about length of viability for these in the fridge - have seen somewhere 3 months?

I do both, combined with storage on slants and freezing - what I use all depends on the situation.

Reusing the yeast from a previous batch - after rinsing it - is a great way to build up a large number of yeast cells for a lager, strong beer or large batch.

If you have the equipment for storing small samples of yeast (lab-type vials), I see no benefit to splitting and storing a starter, however it is useful if storing the yeast in stubbies, and so can be done without any special containers. I've found that storing washed yeast (which would be the same as a split-starter) keeps it viable for 3-6 months, maybe up to 12 but after that it's usually dead.

If storing yeast I prefer it to be as 'pristine' as possible so (when using a smack-pack or new vial) that's directly out of the pack - simply split the pack into 10 or 15ml sterile vials as soon as it's opened. This way there are as few 'yeast handling' steps as possible, since each has the possibility of introducing contamination, infection or mutation (more chance for this if you make a starter before storing the yeast).

Obviously you need to make a starter in either case (split new-pack or split starter) so having a larger quantity of yeast - from the split starter - is of no real advantage IMHO.

The only time that I store washed slurry for a long period is if there was something interesting about the yeast that I wish to retain. I have reused a recultured Coopers yeast strain in this way for a few years now, because I like what it does and feel it is a 'quick fermenting' strain. However in this case I'm happy for the yeast to change or mutate over time, which is not something that you normally want.

 

[Yob]

Also, curious about length of viability for these in the fridge - have seen somewhere 3 months?

if you have a play with mr malty and play with the dates (for slurry) it gives a viability, the older the yeast the more the viability drops

 

[Newbee(r)]

Wolfy, Yob, thanks for the advice, most appreciated. If I can get up to 6 months I'll be stoked, I brew once a fortnight on average so this means a few vials to friends and the rest will get used up rather than go to waste. Will definitely have a play with the Mr Malty calculator.

Cheers

J

 

[Guysmiley54]

I'm sure this has been answered but I can't seem to find it...

If you store into vials straight from the pack, do you still "smack" it? or will the nutrients be better left out of it?

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[hando]

how thick was the trub you were rinsing? A trub that is quite thick in solution will not let you see the propper separation. This can lead you to select only the least flocculent yeast in solution which could lead to your second issue.

When rinsing you should have about 4 x rinsing water over whatever volume of slurry you are rinsing, I often find that if I've got too thick a slurry the separation is not all that evident after 20 mins, so will split again into 2 vessels and go again, normally this is enough to get it right.

Here is a link to the BN Podcast on Rinsing Yeast LINKY If you have a spare hour have a listen as it's very informative and helps with understanding. They discuss what happens when less flocculent yeast is selected and quite sounds like your problem.

Hope this helps

Yob

It was standard thickness I suppose. It certainly thinned out after I added the water to it and swished it about! When i did the process, I waited the 20 minutes each time with the solutions in the fridge, and the water I added was (boiled &) chilled straight from the fridge too. Do you think the fact that it was cold fridge temps caused the majority of the flocculant yeast to drop out?

BN podcast fantastic too thanks!

 

[Yob]

It was standard thickness I suppose. It certainly thinned out after I added the water to it and swished it about! When i did the process, I waited the 20 minutes each time with the solutions in the fridge, and the water I added was (boiled &) chilled straight from the fridge too. Do you think the fact that it was cold fridge temps caused the majority of the flocculant yeast to drop out?

BN podcast fantastic too thanks!

certainly wont help with keeping them in solution, being at those temps will encourage them to floc quite quickly... I usually rinse at room temps to help keep them in solution a bit longer and then right into the fridge after separation.

So similar to Wolfy's initial post, I put about 800ml into the FV at room temp, wait a little and off to the jar(s) for further dilution, the whole process takes a few hours if Im being anal about it.... which I usually am When I think Ive got the required amount of yeast I then put them into the fridge so I can work out how much compact yeast I have... often I end up combining a few jars to get to 100ml in each jar which makes for easy maths when it comes to repitching.

Yob

 

[stux]

I'm sure this has been answered but I can't seem to find it...

If you store into vials straight from the pack, do you still "smack" it? or will the nutrients be better left out of it?

Cheers :icon_cheers:

I've tried both. I get better results NOT smacking the pack. I keep my nutrient packs for tossing in starters

 

[hando]

Looks like I'll be modifying my method next time. Thanks Yob.

 

[sama]

never used wyeast but will be doing shortly (allways used whitelabs).How much yeasty liquid (without smacking nutrient pouch) is there in a wyeast pouch? Says 125ml on pack tho that includes nutrient.

 

[Truman42]

I pulled my slurry from a 17 litre batch I bottled last night. After leaving it the fridge over night here is what I ended up with.

Surely this wouldnt be all yeast? It was only 1 packet of US05 in a 17 lite batch. It started at 1.064 and finished at 1.012

 

[Muscovy_333]

I pulled my slurry from a 17 litre batch I bottled last night. After leaving it the fridge over night here is what I ended up with.

Surely this wouldnt be all yeast? It was only 1 packet of US05 in a 17 lite batch. It started at 1.064 and finished at 1.012
View attachment 53917

Most of it would be yeast troy, but most of it will also be dead!
The viable yeast will be white and milky and stay in solution longer at room temp, hence why it forms different layers on settling.

When i harvest i do not refrigerate at all at any point until i have rinsed and seperated. otherwise the viable stuff drops out of solution and is more difficult to recover.


If you follow Wolfy's instructions at room temp step by step you will get what you want. It takes a little trial and error the first couple of times..

 

[Truman42]

I did initially leave it at room temp for a few hours but it looked the same as in that photo. I shook it up 2 -3 times and kept an eye on it for it to separate into the three layers but it didn't. So I put it in the fridge overnight to see if it made a difference.

 

[donburke]

last night i kegged a beer that i had used wy1768

after i finished, i tipped 1.5 litres of preboiled water into the fermenter and swirled it for a few minutes, then decanted the solution to flask

after about 15 minutes i had 3 layers, but the yeast was at the bottom and trub in the middle, and clear wort on top

the bottom layer was white and creamy, the middle layer was green/brown

i only kept the bottom layer, as it what most resembled yeast

i should have taken a photo, but i assure you, the stuff in the middle did not resemble yeast, whilst the bottom definitely did

has anyone ever experienced this with this particular yeast strain or did i toss the wrong bit out ?

 

[kelbygreen]

I have not tried this yet. But wonder how do you tip the layers out?? wouldnt they start to mix back together when you tip it up?

 

[Yob]

I did initially leave it at room temp for a few hours but it looked the same as in that photo. I shook it up 2 -3 times and kept an eye on it for it to separate into the three layers but it didn't. So I put it in the fridge overnight to see if it made a difference.

Your Trub to Water ratio is too thick...

put 200ml into a jar.. Trub should equal MAXIMUM 1/3 of the total rinsing volume, I find 1/4 is better

The taller the jar the better, those V8 jars are awesome..

If it's too thick you will not get the separation and you need to dilute further.

Just as a little experiment scoop a teaspoon of the trub into a BIG jar and half fill it with tap water, swirl/shake and see what happens

Big Jars + small trub = better separation.

ed: in that Photo Truman you have about 3 x too much trub for a jar that size.

Here is the separation I got with 200ml of slurry into 800ml of rinsing water.

LINKY

 

[Yob]

I have not tried this yet. But wonder how do you tip the layers out?? wouldnt they start to mix back together when you tip it up?

if you do it slowly you can see when the trub starts to pick up... slowly slowly is the key.

You (I) stop pouring when the trub gets near to the neck of the jar, thats why I like the V8 jars as they narrow to the top quite sharply and it's easy to stop when you see the trub getting close.

Yob

 

[Truman42]

Your Trub to Water ratio is too thick...

put 200ml into a jar.. Trub should equal MAXIMUM 1/3 of the total rinsing volume, I find 1/4 is better

The taller the jar the better, those V8 jars are awesome..

If it's too thick you will not get the separation and you need to dilute further.

Just as a little experiment scoop a teaspoon of the trub into a BIG jar and half fill it with tap water, swirl/shake and see what happens

Big Jars + small trub = better separation.

ed: in that Photo Truman you have about 3 x too much trub for a jar that size.

Here is the separation I got with 200ml of slurry into 800ml of rinsing water.

LINKY

Cheers mate will give that a try. So in your photo from top to bottom is that

WORT
HEALTHY YEAST
DEAD YEAST
TRUB

 

[cdbrown]

I pulled my slurry from a 17 litre batch I bottled last night. After leaving it the fridge over night here is what I ended up with.

Surely this wouldnt be all yeast? It was only 1 packet of US05 in a 17 lite batch. It started at 1.064 and finished at 1.012
View attachment 53917

Was the yeast cake still cool from the brew being cold conditioned? All the yeast, break and hops will drop quite quick if it's cold so you need to have it at 20c , shake and then see the layers after about 15mins. Like has been said - split that across two jars and top up with water and then give it a shake. If you still don't get fairly clear layers split and dilute again.

Don - not seen the yeast on the bottom before - did you add any fining agent which may be dropping the yeast out before the rest of the trub? Hopefully it's not the early floccing yeast you have saved.

 

[Yob]

Cheers mate will give that a try. So in your photo from top to bottom is that

WORT
HEALTHY YEAST
DEAD YEAST
TRUB

From Bottom up

Bottom Layer (Denser Material) = Hops
Next Layer up = Trub (Less dense material)
Next Layer up = Viable Yeast
Top Layer = Diluted Wort.

The denser the material the quicker it will sink...

that particular jar (as per the post it was from) was left for a fair while as I'd finished rinsing and went onto other things... I was surprised at the time with the separation into 4 layers..

gawd it's perdy though

ed: added the photo for clarity



Yob

 

[Truman42]

Was the yeast cake still cool from the brew being cold conditioned? All the yeast, break and hops will drop quite quick if it's cold so you need to have it at 20c , shake and then see the layers after about 15mins. Like has been said - split that across two jars and top up with water and then give it a shake. If you still don't get fairly clear layers split and dilute again.

Don - not seen the yeast on the bottom before - did you add any fining agent which may be dropping the yeast out before the rest of the trub? Hopefully it's not the early floccing yeast you have saved.

Yes it was, it was still around 13C when I added 500mls of cooled boiled water. Will make sure I keep that in mind for next time.