Rims Or Herms

[mschippr]

I'm in the process of upgrading my rig to either RIMS or HERMS.

I can get a 1KW SS RIMS tube delivered for about $170 or a 40 foot SS Herms Coil to install in my HLT delivered for about $140.

Not sure which way to go on this either way i still need to also get a HLT, PID controller, and Pump also.

What do you guys think?

 

[jbirbeck]

I love my RIMS...

 

[raven19]

I love my RIMS...

+10.

In saying that is also comes down to how you plan on setting up the system.

Your thinking about coil in the HLT for the HERMS, this will reduce your number of vessels from 4 down to 3, with the RIMS its a 4th vessel that requires cleaning etc.

Just something to keep in mind.

A RIMS will need a PID (with SSR & Heatsink) - a bit more costly, compared to a HERMS which you can get away with a simple temp controller from evilbay or similar.

Drop me a PM if keen to check out my setup and ask any Q's mate.

Plus my RIMS thread is in my sig below.

 

[MeLoveBeer]

Its a holden vs ford thing... both will do the job, but everyone will be 100% for or against based on their own experience.

I guess when weighing it up personally, it came down to responsiveness and accuracy (RIMS) versus slow safe increases in heat (HERMS). I figured that if the setup is right, then RIMS would give me the best possible result for only marginally more than I could build a HERMS for (and you can buy premanufactured RIMS tubes that are tried and tested for bugger all).

 

[jbirbeck]

Its a holden vs ford thing... both will do the job, but everyone will be 100% for or against based on their own experience.

I guess when weighing it up personally, it came down to responsiveness and accuracy (RIMS) versus slow safe increases in heat (HERMS). I figured that if the setup is right, then RIMS would give me the best possible result for only marginally more than I could build a HERMS for (and you can buy premanufactured RIMS tubes that are tried and tested for bugger all).

+1...same reason for me. I thought about HERMS initially for the ease and lower cost, but seeing Rav's build I could see too many positives in the RIMS. I got my RIMS tube from stainless stuff and it rocks but there is also a place in the states that does a nice RIMS set up for cheap, esp given the current exchange rate.

 

[MeLoveBeer]

there is also a place in the states that does a nice RIMS set up for cheap, esp given the current exchange rate.

Yeh, thats where I got mine and its worth every cent (especially now that they supply the units with BSP fittings). For those interested, I got mine from www.brewershardware.com and could not recommend them enough.

 

[raven19]

I also like the slightly more complicated build of my RIMS, enjoyed the fabrication process and was a good reason to get some more tools for the man cave.

 

[mschippr]

Yes, ive seen the RIMS tubes from stainless stuff and from brewershardware. Im leaning towards the brewershardware way for ease of cleaning though. I think the stainless stuff unit only has 1/4" inlet/outlets which seems rather small.

Last night i was thinking that if i went RIMS i could probably still stick with my 2 vessel setup (MLT, Kettle) and just incorporate it until i get my Electric KEG HLT up and running. That way all i would need is the RIMS tube, pump, and controller.

If i go HERMS i will need to get the Electric HLT up and running, with a coil, pump, and controller, Which is more initial outlay perhaps.

Decissions, decissions.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Slightly OT - if you do decide to go with a RIMS - i think that the 1KW unit is too small if step mashing is on your agenda. Fine for just maintaining temp, but i think your ramps would be too slow with only 1000W.

Small side note - someone mentioned extra expense involving a PID becquse you need an SSR and heatsink - but i manage to run my PID quite nicely on a mechanical relay from DSE that cost only $10. So the total purchase price for PID and relay was around $50 which is reasonably comparable to simple on off controllers.

I changed from HERMS to RIMS and find the RIMS more responsive and more accurate for step mashing but not really any better for straight up maintaining temperatures. And i think that there are HERMS configurations that would probably do just as well as the RIMS - but that they would be just as if not more expensive and complicated.

YMMV of course, its all home built stuff so my units might be nothing like the one you will build or buy.

 

[Bribie G]

With my BIAB setup, even 2400w is a bit gutless for step mashing - I've got a hotplate that I've pressed into service to help out.

 

[Filby]

Thirsty Boy, what element are you running?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I'm running an element re-purposed from an electric kettle. Same as the ones traditionally used in your stock standard bucket'o'death. I got a mate to manufacture a short fat rims tube to accomodate it. I believe it is a 2200W element. It is really too high a heat density for the job, and so i have to massage my technique a little at the start of brews to avoid coating the element with break material and getting burn on. Its also curly and a bit harder to clean after each brew - still only takes a minute or two though. i get ramp times at a little faster than 1C per minute for a single batch, and a bit slower than 1C per min for doubles.

I think the nice, long, smooth stainless element like the ones i have seen for sale about the place recently is just about ideal - 2200W, straight & cylindrical (which means you can minimise the gap between the element and the housing, which increases wort velocity at the heat exchange surface, which reduces the chance of burning and increases heat transfer efficiency, allowing a higher heat density element) i imagine that with this sort of element in a proper rims tube housing, the same pwer as mine would give even better ramp times and faster response, and burn on of break material would be significantly less of an issue.

TB

 

[mschippr]

Thanks for the help guys.

Thirsty: What are these stainless elements you are speaking of? Since i need to buy two elements (one if i got RIMS, and one for the HLT im building). Do you have a website or pic of one? I was going to get a 2.5KW for my HLT and was thinking of 1.5KW for the RIMS, but i could just get two 2.5KW units and call it done.

I was going to get my elements from "plumbing supply" (sent to a US address and diverted to OZ), the units they have look to be stainless but im not 100% sure. Ive sent them an email to let me know what they are made from.

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/elements.html

I guess the other thing i need to consider about the upgrade is how many amps total im going to need to draw to run the thing. from my calculations a 2.5KW element draws 10 amps. I have a 15 amp outlet where i brew but doesnt leave me much to play with especially if i have to run two elements, march pump, and controller.

Thanks,

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Like these ones from craftbrewer

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853

But i Know they are available from e-bay sometimes, other HB suppliers and perhaps even other AHB sponsors too.

TB

 

[Banshee]

Hey peoples can you please list the breweries around the world which use either of these systems. Can you buy these professional systems premade for a micro brewery application?
I ask so I can have a look at their websites to see their systems so I may scale one down.
Cheers.

 

[razz]

Probably easier to look at the sites of the companies that sell them Banshee. I know Dogfish head brewery have a Sabco system as a pilot brewery, that's the only one I know of. Grain n grape put out a HERMS and they also sell a braumeister system worth looking at.

 

[unrealeous]

I think the stainless stuff unit only has 1/4" inlet/outlets which seems rather small.

Incorrect - they make to order. I had 1/2" BSP inlets put onto mine.

 

[mschippr]

how do you guys find the stainless stuff rims tube? any problems or improvements that are needed?

 

[unrealeous]

how do you guys find the stainless stuff rims tube? any problems or improvements that are needed?

They don't have a RIMS unit you can order off the shelf - they probably don't even know what that is - it's all custom built to your specification. Having said that a RIMS unit is really simple - just a tube with space for an element and a few inlets/outlets. It was really easy to get the thing built since I based my design off what Rooting kings just had made by them - but adjusted the length and removed once of the outlets. I just sent them a photo (see below) of his unit with my alterations - basically to suit the length of my element. US140 delivered to my door.



What was delivered


After some insulation - the thermometer goes into the top

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Hey peoples can you please list the breweries around the world which use either of these systems. Can you buy these professional systems premade for a micro brewery application?
I ask so I can have a look at their websites to see their systems so I may scale one down.
Cheers.

Commercial breweries?? Probably none, or at least none that are indesputably bigger than homebrew systems anyway. These sorts of systems are a homebrew alternative to a heated and stirred mash vessel - which is how commercial breweries do it.

Oh, now that i've said there aren't any - someone will probably post links to a few micros that do use herms or rims. But it will be incredibly rare. Its a homebrew sized and designed solution for homebrewers.

But you can buy a pre-made HERMS from more beer that does 20G (160L or so) at a batch, and thats bordering on a brewpub sized system.