Rims Or Herms

[razz]

It depends on your system jackson, most brewers talk about 1 degree rise per minute or thereabouts. I just knocked out an 11 kg batch and the rise time on the mash from sach rest to mashout (64-76 degrees) took 30 mins and that was going by the manifold temp on the outflow of the herms coil. I don't stir after dough in, I don't think there is any advantage.

 

[hsb]

Anyone just using silicon hose for Mash return? Is it working OK?
Was just going to coil some down on top of grain bed or onto a saucer if necessary. Wanted to avoid another piece of kit for now.

 

[razz]

Depending on the flow rate the wort may channel into the grain bed hsb, a very slow flow may do little. It's pretty easy to make something disposable like a dish made from alfoil or a foil BBQ tray with holes in it.

 

[jackson]

It depends on your system jackson, most brewers talk about 1 degree rise per minute or thereabouts. I just knocked out an 11 kg batch and the rise time on the mash from sach rest to mashout (64-76 degrees) took 30 mins and that was going by the manifold temp on the outflow of the herms coil. I don't stir after dough in, I don't think there is any advantage.

Cheers Razz, I have recently upgraded from Biab and my new system is basically an a electric version of Brutus 10 . I have only used it twice so far and I guess 35 min's is a non issue. Probably very acceptable. My temp is taken from the outlet of the mash tun as the element in the bottom of the tun. Plus I have a temp gauge in the tun itself.
Have you tested the temp of the actual grain bed once your mainfold temp has reached temp?

 

[hsb]

Thanks razz - channelling was my worry, a foil BBQ tray sounds perfect, just wanted to avoid some kind of manifold as it seems like overkill for my needs. I'll give it a go.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Jackson,

Work on getting your flow rates as high as they will go without giving you stuck mashes - you can get the march nearly all the way open if you do it right, and that will help with ramp times and with accuracy and stability in the system.

You need to start off your re-circulation slowly, so during your first rest, before you want to ramp anything, get it flowing and re-circing nice and slowly, then just tweak the tap open bit by bit over 5 minutes or so till things are flowing faster. This will get your grain bed set, but wont "shock" it so to speak and suck it down onto the plates. You might have to push it to the point of failure a time or two before you learn where it starts to not work anymore though.

The other thing that may help you and generally does help in re-circulating systems, is to have a fairly high liquour to grist ratio - i never have less than 3:1 in my RIMS and often getting close to 4:1. A bit more liquid means your grain bed has a bit more depth to float in and keeps it looser. And i always throw in a couple of handsful of rice hulls to keep things nice and fluffy and loose - probably dont need them in my new mash tun, but i did in my old one and cant shake the habit.

I dont worry about the actual mash tun temp anymore - i work off the wort temp, but the tun temp lags behind a bit. Your system is only based around a reasonably small element - i would expect it to be about a degree per minute for a single sized batch, but naturally it is going to be much slower for larger batches, increased flow rates will help spread the heat faster - but wont help with shoving it in any faster.

A re-circing system is a thing that needs to be learned... Give it a few brews to get a handle on how your particular one works. I really hope it does end up working well for you, i love the design.

TB

 

[hockadays]

Insulate that mash tun and I think you reduce the lag times as well.

 

[jackson]

Thanks Thirsty, I took your advice and had a great result with my temp ramp time. I brewed a double batch of lcpa 10 kgs of grain to 35 litres and added some rice hulls, after the mash I was able to crank the marsh pump to a good flow rate that had the temp go from 64 to 77 deg in 20 min. The tun outlet temp did not reach 77 deg until about the 17 min mark and the actual tun temp caught up about 3 min later. So I would think that the flow rate was about spot on. The picture bellow shows the element after the mash out and it was very easy to clean with no signs of burning.



I also insulated as hockaday sujested

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thats a pretty good ramp rate for a double batch - well i reckon so because its as good as or better than i'd get for that size mash. Nice and efficient at heat transfer that in tun element, and any waste heat goes into the mash anyway.

That level of insulation will certainly help - but be on the lookout for overshoot - a really well insulated system doesn't allow for any heat to escape, so if your system drives the temp to high thats where it will stay. It probably wont be an issue, but its something to keep an eye out for.

Very very nice. Well done.

TB

 

[KillerRx4]

Jackson, love the concept. Could use some help with mine. Ive been upgrading my setup & incorporated this design in my mash tun after seeing yours.

Yesterday was the 1st run & it failed miserably. Element burned out within a few degrees of the 1st ramp.

I suspect I need to crush coarser, use some rice hulls, & maybe need a different style false bottom. Mine is flat & very little space under the falsie now the element is installed.

What style of false bottom are you using in your tun?

A couple of pics of my failed attempt.

 

[QldKev]

Jackson, love the concept. Could use some help with mine. Ive been upgrading my setup & incorporated this design in my mash tun after seeing yours.

Yesterday was the 1st run & it failed miserably. Element burned out within a few degrees of the 1st ramp.

I suspect I need to crush coarser, use some rice hulls, & maybe need a different style false bottom. Mine is flat & very little space under the falsie now the element is installed.

What style of false bottom are you using in your tun?

A couple of pics of my failed attempt.
<snip>

A couple of question?
Why don't you have the boil dry protection connected, it may have saved the element
Where are you measuring the temp of the wort from? I though before the element would burn out the wort above it would have far exceeded 78c

QldKev

 

[KillerRx4]

I didnt expect to come near boiling point so didn't think it necessary. Will wire up through it when i replace it.

Wort is measured at tun outlet, was stepping from 40 to 69, PID displaying 44 when it burned out. Although recirc was pretty slow rate so may well have been well exceeding that at element surface.

 

[QldKev]

Sorry for the hundred question, I'm interested in setting the exact same thing up.

Do you think if you pushed the temp pickup / thermistor into the pickup tube it would get a reading of the temp directly above the element, and hopefully eliminate this issue?

QldKev

 

[speedie]

you diy electicians should diffinatley be using earth leakage stuff your health is far more important than any brew quipment :icon_cheers:

 

[Yob]

you diy electicians should diffinatley be using earth leakage stuff your health is far more important than any brew quipment :icon_cheers:

totally earthed

 

[KillerRx4]

Sorry for the hundred question, I'm interested in setting the exact same thing up.

Do you think if you pushed the temp pickup / thermistor into the pickup tube it would get a reading of the temp directly above the element, and hopefully eliminate this issue?

QldKev

I would expect to get the same reading in the pickup tube as at outlet. Perhaps have the RTD in the space under the false bottom would be a better solution.

 

[KillerRx4]

you diy electicians should diffinatley be using earth leakage stuff your health is far more important than any brew quipment :icon_cheers:

The RCD should have me covered if for some reason I grab a live terminal. But I think if its live the heat given off the element would be enough to deter touching anything near it.

 

[hsb]

I think the issue is more that an unearthed element 'could' make the whole vessel live and the stand too if metal but earth/RCD sounds good.

 

[jackson]

Jackson, love the concept. Could use some help with mine. Ive been upgrading my setup & incorporated this design in my mash tun after seeing yours.

Yesterday was the 1st run & it failed miserably. Element burned out within a few degrees of the 1st ramp.

I suspect I need to crush coarser, use some rice hulls, & maybe need a different style false bottom. Mine is flat & very little space under the falsie now the element is installed.

What style of false bottom are you using in your tun?

A couple of pics of my failed attempt.
View attachment 44922 View attachment 44923 View attachment 44925 View attachment 44924

Hi KillaRx4, sorry to hear about the failed 1st run. In my set up the temp prob is read from the mash tune outlet so if I got a stuck sparge I think the temp would certainly get away from me if I did not catch it in time. The thermal overload would save the day for the element but the wort would cop a hiding. I guess to overcome the issue you could locate the temp prob under the falsey if there was enough room. However I think a the optimum temp reading point when recirculating would be where it is now.
I had a couple of stuck or slow sparges on my first run however the marsh pump seems to make a rattle noise if its not happy with the flow rate. So the noise was a great indicator that I had an issue plus it's pretty easy to monitor the flow with clear tubes and having the wort return above the water line. I also have an indicator LED mounted in the tun that is great for monitoring when the element is on or off.

I think more space under the false bottom would be a good thing. I use the Craftbrewers 12 inch dome false bottom.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=926

In last few brews I have had no issue with stuck sparge now that I have the hang of the flow rate of the pump.

 

[KillerRx4]

Thanks mate.
I'll go grab a domed false bottom & some rice hulls.

It would be easy enough to mount the RTD probe under the false bottom, I'm thinking this might be the better position.