Refreshing Liqaud Yeast

[Bigfella]

I just found some 2206 bavarian yeast in my fridge, They are a batch that I propagated from a smack pack.
My question is they are know 1 year old should I just fling them or would it be worth my while making a new batch from one of them and go a second generation at least they would be fresh.

 

[BJCP Education Director]

Pitch them. Better to pay the $5 for new yeast than end up having to dump a whole batch b/c the yeast was crap or not active at all.

 

[pint of lager]

Bigfella, depends on how far you are from a brewshop and how good the yeast is.

Never ever pitch a yeast into a brew without making a starter from it. Unless it is fresh slurry.

One year is certainly pushing the limits unless you culture using petri dishes.

You can try making a starter, if it takes too long to fire up, smells funny or tastes funny, chuck it out and hopefully you have a standby pack of dry to use.

As BJCP Ed said, it is better to use a fresh known yeast rather than a suspect yeast in your beer.

 

[Doc]

Bigfella,

I'd make a starter from them all (ie combine all your old starters) and see how it went. If the starter took within two days and smelt fine all should be ok.
I've done it from yeast that was just over two years old. The starter took in a day, and the beer it produced was great. It was Wyeast 3787 Belg. High Gravity.
I have done it with other yeasts over 1 year old also.
However if something doesn't look right, then ditch it.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Bigfella]

I'm not actually going to use it yet so I was just wondering if is is worth making a starter and make a fresh batch kind of give it a new lease of life.

 

[pint of lager]

Bigfella, follow doc's advice, if it smells and tastes ok, get brewing, if not, chuck it out.

There are no gaurantees with this sort of thing. Ere on the side of caution.

 

[jgriffin]

Pitch them. Better to pay the $5 for new yeast than end up having to dump a whole batch b/c the yeast was crap or not active at all.

[post="50724"][/post]​

Unfortunatley by the time they get to the brewer in Oz they cost a lot more than that, i'm not paying more for my yeast than i am for the rest of the ingredients if i can help it.

 

[sosman]

I'm not actually going to use it yet so I was just wondering if is is worth making a starter and make a fresh batch kind of give it a new lease of life.

[post="50733"][/post]​

Bigfella - in this sort of situation I generally chuck the yeast into only 100ml or so of wort. If it takes off then step it up with the rest of the wort you prepared or switch to known, good yeast.

 

[chiller]

Pitch them. Better to pay the $5 for new yeast than end up having to dump a whole batch b/c the yeast was crap or not active at all.

[post="50724"][/post]​

That isn't necassarily sound advice.

No indication is given as to the storage of the yeast. Under sterile water yeast happily can survive and start very quickly up to 18 - 24 months later.

Yeast here is a high cost component of brewing.

If there is anything other than a clean freah odour when you open the old starter, autolysis or mutation [both real posibilities] can be suspected.

I regularly restart cultures from sterile water storage. Some yeast last better than others but only your experience with your yeast farm will tell you which.

Don't overload the yeast with starter, use only about 50 - 100 ml to start for the first 24 - 48 hours then step up.

If everything goes to plan you can harvest the yeast that has regenerated and store under water for "next time"

And if that doesn't work -- Wyeast and Whitelabs are the brewers friend

Steve.

 

[BJCP Education Director]

THe problem that you guys are missing is the mutation of the yeast. Yeast are alive and will mutate as they age. The older the yeast the more mutations. The question in my mind is not whether the yeast 'can' make beer its the quality of the beer. If there is a special strain that I have that I want to keep, I freeze it at -180C (liquid N2). However, I still have to revived it and refreeze it every 6 months.

FYI - After numerous conversations with Chris White (White Labs) this is the same thing they do. Its also the same thing that the Weinstephaner yeast bank does.

I apologize as to not taking into the consideration the cost of the yeast for you guys. However, my point still stands. Whether the yeast costs $5 or $20, the brew ingredients will more than likely cost more than that.

Im not telling you what to do, Im just saying what I would do. Its your beer.

 

[chiller]

THe problem that you guys are missing is the mutation of the yeast. Yeast are alive and will mutate as they age. The older the yeast the more mutations. The question in my mind is not whether the yeast 'can' make beer its the quality of the beer. If there is a special strain that I have that I want to keep, I freeze it at -180C (liquid N2). However, I still have to revived it and refreeze it every 6 months.

FYI - After numerous conversations with Chris White (White Labs) this is the same thing they do. Its also the same thing that the Weinstephaner yeast bank does.

I apologize as to not taking into the consideration the cost of the yeast for you guys. However, my point still stands. Whether the yeast costs $5 or $20, the brew ingredients will more than likely cost more than that.

Im not telling you what to do, Im just saying what I would do. Its your beer.

[post="50772"][/post]​

You seem to have no difficulty firing off a quick reply BJCP but little ability to read.

In my post I correctly identified Autolysis and mutation as problems facing yeast storage.

Your manner has you flagged as a troll in my book. Note my book. Others can accept or reject you as they see fit.

Steve.

 

[PeterS]

I like to thank both odf you guys. From my reading of this thread and others not relating to this subject I concluded that both of you gentlemen know a lot aotu the subject of yeast farming. On the other hand, I do not know a thing about them. Therefore, your exchange of views can only serve to educate me.

For what is worth, I am a new AG brewer, and I fouund it difficult to source liquid yeast in close proximity to my residence (3 HB shops). The owners advise me that it is not cost effective to sell liquid yeast due to its high cost and slow turn over. You can look at this from two perspectives. From the shop owners point of view they will only loose money if there is not sufficient turn over and have to throw out expensive out dated stock. From our point of view, if it is difficult to source yeast like this, we only have two choices. Use available dry yeast of questionable quality or find some luiquid source and farm it to reduce the cost. I will not talk about the third possibility that my mother always said exists in all things. Personally, I think it is a shame to pay more for your yeast than the total of all other ingredients. No wonder than we either return to commercial purchases (Not I), use dry yeast and hope for the best or attempt to yeast farm without the ability to cryogenically freeze the poor buggers for future use. In either case, thank both Chiller and the BJCP Educator (what a title for a nick name.) for educating me in the possible alternative for me to yeast farm.

Cheers and Beers