Redback Clone

[roo_dr]

Any word on how this turned out - OK, it's 6 years later....

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

I don't hold much hope, what's been mentioned so far is not very close to the recipe for Redback.

55% JW wheat, 45 % JW pale, nothing else.

Mash in with a 10 min protein rest, ramp to 63, ramp to 68, mash out at 74. Adjust times as needed to get an OG of about 11.5 and an FG of about 2.5. With modern malts you probably don't need any time at 63. You may need to add glucanase to get acceptable lauter performance, depending on the wheat glucan levels.

Nothing fancy and certainly nothing American in the hops: a neutral bittering hop at 90 minutes and 0.5 g/l Hallertau* at 5 minutes to get 18 IBU.

Pitch at 15 oC with W 68 and free rise to top heat of 23.5 oC**, the ferment must not have a depth of more than 2 metres (thus a horizontal fermenter is required for large volumes). Rack off the yeast and condition at 0oC, Isinglas fine*** then bottle condition with W 34 to achieve 6 g/l CO2. Add PGA as needed to achieve appropriate head retention.

After the lactic incident it went to "Kristal" which was the same thing sterile filtered then in line carbonated to 6 g/l.



*This is from my increasingly faulty memory, I was doing this nearly 30 years ago. It might have been Saaz but I doubt it, in those days Saaz was the most expensive hop on the market and mostly used in the pilsener.

** This is based on 100 hl batches: It's hard to achieve the profile in a small vessel where you don't get as much heat retention, the rise took a few days.

***I forget the rate.

 

[welly2]

I don't hold much hope, what's been mentioned so far is not very close to the recipe for Redback.

55% JW wheat, 45 % JW pale, nothing else.

Mash in with a 10 min protein rest, ramp to 63, ramp to 68, mash out at 74. Adjust times as needed to get an OG of about 11.5 and an FG of about 2.5. With modern malts you probably don't need any time at 63. You may need to add glucanase to get acceptable lauter performance, depending on the wheat glucan levels.

Nothing fancy and certainly nothing American in the hops: a neutral bittering hop at 90 minutes and 0.5 g/l Hallertau* at 5 minutes to get 18 IBU.

Pitch at 15 oC with W 68 and free rise to top heat of 23.5 oC**, the ferment must not have a depth of more than 2 metres (thus a horizontal fermenter is required for large volumes). Rack off the yeast and condition at 0oC, Isinglas fine*** then bottle condition with W 34 to achieve 6 g/l CO2. Add PGA as needed to achieve appropriate head retention.

After the lactic incident it went to "Kristal" which was the same thing sterile filtered then in line carbonated to 6 g/l.



*This is from my increasingly faulty memory, I was doing this nearly 30 years ago. It might have been Saaz but I doubt it, in those days Saaz was the most expensive hop on the market and mostly used in the pilsener.

** This is based on 100 hl batches: It's hard to achieve the profile in a small vessel where you don't get as much heat retention, the rise took a few days.

***I forget the rate.

According to Matilda Bay, it's hopped with PoR -

https://www.matildabay.com.au/product/redback

But as you say - Pale Malt, Wheat Malt and 18 IBUs.

 

[roo_dr]

Thanks!

I should have checked here before my post minutes ago

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93617-reddish-backed-clone/

 

[roo_dr]

Now I'm tempted to dry hop... quick someone say no!!

 

[jyo]

No! Let the yeast be the hero!

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I'm going to throw this one down within the next month (got a pale ale malt bill pre-milled before)

100% pilsner malt
POR bittering to 18ibu @ 60
Hallertau Mittelfruh to 5ibu @ 5
WB-06

Nice and simple. No wheat.. (hmmm)
Half considering 50% ale malt but not sure

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Looks good to me. If I was going to change it I would --

Vienna malt... meh. I think you could leave it out.

Yeast - I don't think that the Belgian Yeast is the appropriate choice. Redback is more of a German style Krstal Weizen. I would go with a true German Wheat yeast - probably Wyeast 3068. Its the Weihenstephan strain and I always find that particular Hefe to be quite clove oriented. In dry yeast I think the WB-06 I think is probably a good choice, From all reports its quite clove balanced. Clove balance is what you want - Redback is intensely phenolic and goes beyond clove into almost bacon/smokiness. A decent pitch of it to keep the banana esters under control a little and ferment at teh cooler end of the range for whatever yeast you choose.

Mash schedule - You want lots of clove, so perhaps consider a ferulic acid rest @ 43C. You want it to be at a slightly higher pH than normal mashing (5.7) so you would do the rest @ 43C - then - add whatever it is you would normally add to keep your pH at 5.2 after you step up to your main sacch rest.

And hope that Les the weizguy reads and answers this thread - cause he's the one who really knows.

TB

Spot on with the bacon regards. I used to drink Redback religiously and remember giving one to a mate who said "tastes like ham!" He now says regularly: Made any ham beers lately?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well I finally came across a Redback at the bottleo today so picked one up. $5 later.. I wasn't near as impressed as I once was years ago before brewing. It's a quaffable drop but a touch unrefined, or maybe it wasn't very fresh, who knows for sure.

Anyhow, upon tasting I'd say from experience we're talking 50/50 ale malt and malted wheat. I say ale because of colour and sweetness, which is just what I get making pilsner with ale malt. Some strain of hefe yeast and about 25-30ibu with part of that present as a late addition. Yes, I understand that seems high for a hefe but it's definitely what I'm getting

Cheers

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well, I'm now down to the last 4 bottles of this one: 50-50 unmalted wheat and pilsner malt, w/- 50gms Master foods crushed coriander seed. 25gms would have been perfect and double that too strong which gave a bitter overtone to the finished product. It's mellowed alot and fantastic now though but still a bit too much.

I used WB06 which has perfect aroma. Just like a Redback except not as malty with the pilsner malt.

15ibu at 60 and 6ibu Hallertau at 10

3 weeks on it turned into a kristallweizen. Absolutely crystal clear and a really nice drop. I'd say with ale malt the two would be indistinguishable

 

[Weizguy]

You people want a beer to taste like Redback, but cannot be bothered doing any research, or listening to the experts?
Redback contains NO fkn coriander, No Citra, No Pils malt.
It used to be hefe, but now is Kristall and greatly suffers for it.
See Lyrebird_Cycles post above, coz it sounds like he was brewing the real stuff.
This is still a difficult style to master, and I've been working on it for years.
Doctormcbrewdle, thanks for posting results, like more brewers should.

Weizguy out

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Cheers Weiz, well said

Just a quick update and some observations on Redback itself for anyone who may be looking into something similar

"Redback Australian wheat beer" is now C.U.B's take (previously Matilda Bay) on an "Australian" witbier. The Australian parts being: Aus BB Ale malt, rather than EU pilsner malt, 50% wheat and a higher IBU incorporating Australian hops over EU

It gets away with the higher than standard bitterness due to the caramelly BB Ale malt being sweeter, so balances nicely being higher. Quite a different wit really, but still of course using traditional wit yeast to impart the characteristic esters typical of the style

Just milled up 50/50 BB Ale malt/ Weyerman malted wheat ready for brew day in the coming days. Still deciding on IBU, water and acid

Will update

 

[Wobbly74]

Made a batch with a combination of gladfield ale and bests wheat. 60 minute super pride bittering addition and saaz in the whirlpool. Wb-06 yeast held at 21.5C for 6 days. Not bad!

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Update: Well I've been bottled about 10 days now and decided to pick up a Redback on the way home to A/B

Well, how'd you go? (Redback pictured on right)

Redback is not what it used to be.. I think they're using something like Munich or something to add this strange sweetness. It's just not what I remember it being and tipped the last 1/3rd or so and went back to mine. Meh, C.U B have stuffed this one I think. It's still an ok commercial drop for those unaware but coinesseurs won't be pleased

I prefer mine but it is a tadd 'tart'. I think it may be an attribute of WB06 but next time will try less bittering (I went to 18ibu) and more chloride