Re-Hydrate v Not..

[slash22000]

Here is a link to a cheap copy of the book if anybody is interested (not affiliated).

But as far as pitching at 24ºC or so, you will note from the article I linked as well that 35ºC - 40ºC in water was the optimal temperature for ~100% cell recovery.

Pitching into wort (at any temperature) kills dehydrated yeast (this is also covered in the article).

 

[Silver]

I for one am not trying to reinvent the wheel, simply stated quite a while ago that i for one have always pitched dry and never had any problems. Seems I should not have this opinion according to some.

 

[slash22000]

Don't take things so personally, Silver.

Nobody is saying pitching yeast dry doesn't work but the fact is that it is poor practice. You're intentionally killing most of your yeast. I mean, you wouldn't intentionally **** up any other part of the brewing process, so why intentionally **** up your yeast? :huh:

 

[GalBrew]

I for one am not trying to reinvent the wheel, simply stated quite a while ago that i for one have always pitched dry and never had any problems. Seems I should not have this opinion according to some.

Your beer might taste fine, but have you ever thought that if you didn't pitch dry, and actually pitched the correct amount of yeast it might taste better?

You can make beer with a wild open ferment too right, there will be no problems ferment wise there either.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Best practice v's second best practice, your choice.

 

[Yob]

and also, is more of an issue if you would be re-using the yeast. As slash said, dont get worked up about it mate, the forum is a beast at times but the info will out.

 

[vonromanz]

Here is a link to a cheap copy of the book if anybody is interested (not affiliated).

But as far as pitching at 24ºC or so, you will note from the article I linked as well that 35ºC - 40ºC in water was the optimal temperature for ~100% cell recovery.

Pitching into wort (at any temperature) kills dehydrated yeast (this is also covered in the article).

Hi Slash22000,

The rehydrating temp of 35-40C is only for a basic process. As they mentioned, every yeast strain has its own optimum rehydration process. This is one of the key differences between Danstar and Fermentis.

Danstar rehydration temp is 35oC where Fermentis is 27oC (+/-3oC) for their ale strains and 23oC (+/-3oC) for the lager strains. You will still have to adjust the yeast temperature to fermentation temperature, or within 10oC.

For this reason I prefer Fermentis over Danstar, since the rehydration temp is closer to fermentation temp for ales, say 20oC. There is n big difference between 35oC (Danstar rehydration temp) and 20oC (Ale fermentation temp).

Cheers

 

[Silver]

Not at all upset, but appreciate the concern. Have rehydrated in the past and found no difference in my beers to speak of. Did a quick search of Fermentis after recalling my days of brewing Coopers and the instructions saying to sprinkle onto wort. Cut and Paste from Fermentis as follows:
rehydration instructions
Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°C ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes.
Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). Progressively sprinkle
the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes, then mix the
wort using aeration or by wort addition.

Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). These are the experts, right.

 

[GalBrew]

Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). These are the experts, right.

Yes, and they know full well that around half your yeast will die when you pitch dry. They put these 'alternate' instructions on for noobs, so they don't chuck the whole brewing thing in the two hard basket.

Go ask the good people at Mountain Goat if they pitch their us-05 (which they do use) dry.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I for one am not trying to reinvent the wheel, simply stated quite a while ago that i for one have always pitched dry and never had any problems. Seems I should not have this opinion according to some.

Opinions + Internet = dangerous territory

 

[Silver]

Yes, and they know full well that around half your yeast will die when you pitch dry. They put these 'alternate' instructions on for noobs, so they don't chuck the whole brewing thing in the two hard basket.

Go ask the good people at Mountain Goat if they pitch their us-05 (which they do use) dry.

"They put these 'alternate' instructions on for noobs, so they don't chuck the whole brewing thing in the two hard basket." Is this what they told you when you asked the good people at Fermentis?

 

[slcmorro]

Oh FFS.

 

[verysupple]

While I disagree with most of the statements in the OP, there's a really good reason why beer still ferments OK without rehydrating the yeast.

If you pitch 11 g of dry yeast into a 23 L batch of average strength ale (1.048 or 12 P) and 50 % of the cells die, you still have ~110 billion healthy(ish) cells left to do the job. That's a pitch rate of ~0.4 million cells / P / mL which is only slightly underpitching for most styles.

As many people have already pointed out, rehydrating is plain and simple good practice. However, nobody's forcing you to do it and if you can't be bothered calculating the mass of dry yeast needed for a batch and then carefully weighing it out and then rehydrating it properly, you probably don't care about pitching rates anyway.

 

[slash22000]

Silver, have you actually read any of the links that have been posted in this thread?

You say you have rehydrated in the past and saw no difference in the beer, but this is really not a matter of opinion. The hard science 100% confirms that pitching dehydrated yeast is a bad idea compared to rehydrating. Fermentis does not breed some sort of magical yeast that defies all known brewing science.

Lots of people don't sufficiently aerate their wort before they pitch their yeast. Lots of people don't add yeast nutrients to their wort. Lots of people don't pitch enough yeast. Lots of people ferment too high, or too low.

Yeast is a battler of an organism, and 9 times out of 10 it will work "well enough" no matter what you do to it. That doesn't mean that there is not a BETTER way of doing things.

 

[Florian]

Yeast is a battler of an organism, and 9 times out of 10 it will work "well enough" no matter what you do to it. That doesn't mean that there is not a BETTER way of doing things.

I don't think anyone has said that though. People like Silver do realise that there theoretically might be a better way of doing things, but if they're happy with their results and don't constantly strive to better them then why bother? He said he tried it but couldn't detect a difference, so why would he bother then?

Leave 'em alone, not everyone needs to be converted to follow best practices. There's enough info in this thread for everyone to get an informed opinion, don't worry.

Brew and let brew!

Also, nothing wrong with dry pitching double the recommended rates, cost aside.

 

[slash22000]

Well the whole topic started with Ducatiboy claiming that NOT rehydrating is the best practice:

When using dry yeast I have never seen the need to re-hydrate first. Especially if done in plain water. The yeast will hydrate just as well in the ferm, if not better. Remember water has no nutrients so wont help it along. The wort has everything it needs to hydrate and get to work

So the topic is really about facts VS fiction, and the facts are that rehydration is the smart move. As you say, brew and let brew, for sure, but the topic IS about rehydration after all.

 

[GalBrew]

So basically we are denying the existence of osmotic shock? Which is what this comes down to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_shock

 

[Florian]

Well the whole topic started with Ducatiboy claiming that NOT rehydrating is the best practice:


So the topic is really about facts VS fiction, and the facts are that rehydration is the smart move. As you say, brew and let brew, for sure, but the topic IS about rehydration after all.

I'm not talking about the OP, fairly obvious what he is on about.

I was referring to Silver who merely stated that he personally can't see why he should rehydrate as he is happy with his beers. He instantly got attacked by at least two posters questioning why he would even be on this site. That's the part I don't get.

I'm re-hydrating as well and always have, but I don't question others if they don't. Suggesting different methods, yes, but not questioning.

Anyway, that's it from me in this thread, I'm off to re-hydrate a pack of Windsor.

 

[Silver]

I'm not talking about the OP, fairly obvious what he is on about.

I was referring to Silver who merely stated that he personally can't see why he should rehydrate as he is happy with his beers. He instantly got attacked by at least two posters questioning why he would even be on this site. That's the part I don't get.

I'm re-hydrating as well and always have, but I don't question others if they don't. Suggesting different methods, yes, but not questioning.

Anyway, that's it from me in this thread, I'm off to re-hydrate a pack of Windsor.

You got it brother. The only one though. sad

 

[GalBrew]

I'm not talking about the OP, fairly obvious what he is on about.

I was referring to Silver who merely stated that he personally can't see why he should rehydrate as he is happy with his beers. He instantly got attacked by at least two posters questioning why he would even be on this site. That's the part I don't get.

I'm re-hydrating as well and always have, but I don't question others if they don't. Suggesting different methods, yes, but not questioning.

Anyway, that's it from me in this thread, I'm off to re-hydrate a pack of Windsor.

I don't understand the point of joining a homebrewing forum, which is essentially a means of sharing homebrewing information, if you don't want any of that information. If Silver is happy with his beers that is great, but if I didn't want to pick up anything new about my brewing processes I would probably spend my net time looking at **** or something else. Anyway I tire of this rubbish.