RAPT fridge...I bought 1....Review

[usastman]

I started this thread. Since installing the probe and dusabling the fan. The temp has remained stable...fluctuates within 1 degree Fan periodically comes in my main concern oruginally when fan was on is the frudge appeared ti be working to hard ...and was concerned about power usage.
Since fan off and temp prob...stable....3 x brews down....and happy with purchase and that bought prior to price increases

 

[plugmeister]

Received my new toy yesterday. Copped a small dent in transit Setting up was a bit buggy, and I had to register a couple of times before it was recognised. The fan noise is *very* loud. Fan vibrations are coming from the mounting plate. I wonder if anyone has experienced this and if there is a known fix? Stabilising the thin sheet metal holding the fan makes it a lot quieter. I will free up a fermenter and get a brew going to give it a proper test now

 

[Grmblz]

Can't complain about the quality control when there isn't any, that's just plain bs, but to be expected from a beta product.
An observation: that looks very much like a computer fan, I've played around with them a lot, and found they seem to be designed to run vertically, in other words when put on their side they crap out after about 12 months of continuous running. I'm talking about the double ball bearing ones not the sleeve type. I have no doubt that kl will come up with an implausible excuse/reason, the dent isn't their fault it's the couriers, so I'm guessing they'll go with "it was working fine until the couriers damaged it" utter crap of course but typical.
fwiw what you've got is just some resonance (that fan seems to be a bit out of balance) the fix is to pull it all apart, tighten all the screws, and use some rubber grommets on the fan mounting screws, I doubt you will be reimbursed for your efforts, just make sure whatever you do that you can easily get to the fan (don't glue the panel in place) because I've got a pound to a pinch of **** it'll be dead within 3 yrs, and that's not good value for a $900 insulated box with $20 of tech in it.

 

[mynameisrodney]

Many PSUs have fans mounted horizontally. I actually just put one in today that did.

 

[Grmblz]

Well there must be different designs, with bearings designed for horizontal mounting, let's hope the rapt has one such fan, because I have a box full of dead (ok not actually dead just really noisy) fans that were mounted horizontally in fermenting fridges, the strange thing is if you hold them vertically most of them run almost silently, I now use radial blowers, and no failures so far.

 

[plugmeister]

Well there must be different designs, with bearings designed for horizontal mounting, let's hope the rapt has one such fan, because I have a box full of dead (ok not actually dead just really noisy) fans that were mounted horizontally in fermenting fridges, the strange thing is if you hold them vertically most of them run almost silently, I now use radial blowers, and no failures so far.

Time will tell I guess. I'm more than happy to tinker, though will get some feedback from KL and also wait for the warranty period before I start customising things too much. Tightened all the screws but no change. I have some fan bits and grommets somewhere so will try that too.

 

[plugmeister]

And it seems that a new fan shroud has been designed and will be shipped on arrival. During the meantime I've fixed the noise by reinforcing the current fan shroud with some tape. Also received a voucher to compensate for the shipping mishap. In the meantime I've used the fridge to cold crash my latest Kveik brews, so it's doing one of it's jobs. Will look to ferment a lager once the last cold crash is complete.

 

[Grmblz]

And it seems that a new fan shroud has been designed and will be shipped on arrival. During the meantime I've fixed the noise by reinforcing the current fan shroud with some tape. Also received a voucher to compensate for the shipping mishap. In the meantime I've used the fridge to cold crash my latest Kveik brews, so it's doing one of it's jobs. Will look to ferment a lager once the last cold crash is complete.

Mate, glad you got a result and good to see another kveik user here, if it wasn't so sad, and predictable it would be funny, a new fan shroud? so we are on the first shipment of a new product and already we've got a V1.1 upgrade, Oh ffs WHY? WHY can't they get their **** together and just do some real world testing before they release these things? The dent isn't their fault and good on em for the voucher (although it's pretty much industry standard)
kl (you know who you are) the next time your critical mind comes up with something, send one to a real human brewer, then listen to what he/she tells you, I know it will be hard for you because you are infallible, and wonderful, and brilliant, and a real little "know it all C" according to my LHBS that deals with you, but it would save a lot of grief for a lot of people, rant off.
Only joking, TEST YOUR PRODUCTS!
Honestly, you guys single handedly changed the face of home brewing here in Australia (when you were at KegKing) you bought affordable (cheap) gear to the masses, maybe not on par with the real gear but perfectly useable, what has happened since then? Why have you lost your way?

 

[reddog]

Well there must be different designs, with bearings designed for horizontal mounting, let's hope the rapt has one such fan, because I have a box full of dead (ok not actually dead just really noisy) fans that were mounted horizontally in fermenting fridges, the strange thing is if you hold them vertically most of them run almost silently, I now use radial blowers, and no failures so far.

What is the blower that you use?

 

[Grmblz]

What is the blower that you use?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2849687...nmjegirBIu39J4vh4IUttchxVT|tkp:Bk9SR4TJ-7S6YQ

 

[reddog]

Do you think it gets the font colder?

 

[Grmblz]

Font? The thread is about fermentation chambers and air circulation. If you are referring to a kegerator then that's a whole different conversation, you cannot cool a standard font with air (despite what retailers claim) air needs to circulate (which is why your household air con has an "air return") If you have a "U" shaped font with air blown through it at one end and returning to the fridge at the other then it can be done (not very successfully) but trying to blow air up a sealed tube isn't going to work, no matter what fan you use. Pubs use "flooded fonts" for a reason, and these are not practical in a home setting unless you have very deep pockets and a thorough understanding of draught systems. There are many good reasons for converted fridges with taps in the door, not least of which is thermal conductivity directly to the taps keeping them cool, and limiting fobbing (froth) the down side of course is they require a bit faffing around to produce and they don't look as "pretty" so wifey probably doesn't want it next to the telly. But from a purely practical perspective, noise, efficiency, service, a well set up converted fridge leaves an off the shelf kegerator for dead. Love Vizsla's btw.

 

[reddog]

Thanks for the reply. My 1st kegerator was a converted fridge with taps in the door, and I got about 12 years of good service out of that one until it died. In the second setup I had the taps inside the fridge mounted on a stainless steel plate. Having the taps inside the fridge kept the taps cleaner (I live in the Pilbara, insects here love beer taps) and always gave a perfect 1st poor. When that fridge died after many years I decided to purchase a series X Plus and so far have been very happy with it but I would like to get the font a little colder.
As for the Vizsla, he is not that colour anymore slowly turning grey. He is still a velcro dog though and if you don't like dogs touching you don't ever get a Vizsla.

​

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Can't complain about the quality control when there isn't any, that's just plain bs, but to be expected from a beta product.
An observation: that looks very much like a computer fan, I've played around with them a lot, and found they seem to be designed to run vertically, in other words when put on their side they crap out after about 12 months of continuous running. I'm talking about the double ball bearing ones not the sleeve type. I have no doubt that kl will come up with an implausible excuse/reason, the dent isn't their fault it's the couriers, so I'm guessing they'll go with "it was working fine until the couriers damaged it" utter crap of course but typical.
fwiw what you've got is just some resonance (that fan seems to be a bit out of balance) the fix is to pull it all apart, tighten all the screws, and use some rubber grommets on the fan mounting screws, I doubt you will be reimbursed for your efforts, just make sure whatever you do that you can easily get to the fan (don't glue the panel in place) because I've got a pound to a pinch of **** it'll be dead within 3 yrs, and that's not good value for a $900 insulated box with $20 of tech in it.

Hey Grumblz. Thanks for that assessment. I would like to give our opinion on the topics below that you have raised:

The statement of "No quality control"
- Each of the RAPT fermentation chambers has several tests done on them including being turned on and ran for 3hrs before getting boxed up. Testing includes heating and cooling tests.
- Every fridge has the refrigeration system pressurized to double the working pressure and also put under vacuum and checked for pressure decay prior to being filled with refrigerant.
- Every output include heating, cooling, LED light are checked prior to packaging
- All RAPT fermentation chambers are inspected for physical defects prior to being packaged
Given the above I am not sure its accurate to say no quality control or testing is done.

Fan Suitability
I am not sure it's really correct to say the fan "looks like a computer fan" and therefor be concerned that it is not suitable for it's application. It is not a computer fan and this fan is NEVER used in computer cases. The fan we use is a powerful AC model of fan that can be mounted in any orientation. The fan model we use is:
Fan Manufacturer: Xiangyu Group
Fan Name: Energy Saving EC Axial Fan (AC Model)
Fan Model: XY-12025B2H
When selecting the fan type we selected this model because it simply moved much more air than the other models we tried and was electrically quite efficient and the fan came with 10 year warranty. We did try some silent fans too (and you are welcome to swap it over for a silent fan if you like as it's a standard 150mm fan type so compatible with many other fan models. With that said when we tried the "silent" fans that were substantially quieter but they simply did not work as well and we noticed much larger differential temperature in the top/bottom/back/front of the fridge. The fan we have selected moves a lot of air and thus keeps the whole fridge a much more consistent temperature which was really one of our primary objectives.

Fan Shroud Vibration
If you are getting a loud sound (that is beyond the sound of the fan blowing air) then the most likely source of this is the fan vibrating against the fridge body or a wire for the fan hitting the fan blade. If the fridge gets a knock in transit then it's possible for something to have changed position and this may have caused the issue. The good thing is that the fan shroud is relatively easy to remove with phillips head screw driver and check it is mounted securely and no wires are touching the fan blades. If however you have a problem with this you can always exercise your option to return the item for refund, get a replacement as this is in our terms and conditions. With that said many customers accept a credit from us instead as this is a faster resolution than shipping large units back and forth and often it's something that can be resolved without the need to ship these large bulky items around.

Real Life Testing Before Release
The RAPT fermentation chambers were being tested for more than 12 months prior to being released and the testing was being done by real brewers. So I am not sure its fair to say we have not done testing. Yes we have recently made a G1.1 model that has some small changes including the stainless steel shroud and front edge which you can see in the attached images. We are contently taking feedback from our customer base who frequently make requests for changes or feature upgrades and these are generally responded to quickly which is why we come up with these upgrades. With that said even the G1.0 models worked great and I still use this model at home myself and love it. I am not sure it's the right thing to conclude that we have a G1.1 model now and this model should have been the one in the initial release. If we did this we would never release anything as we are constantly improving our whole range of products. Really our job is to make sure that we supply a great value product that works as intended and I think we do this quite well.

 

[Grmblz]

Hey Grumblz. Thanks for that assessment. I would like to give our opinion on the topics below that you have raised:

The statement of "No quality control"
- Each of the RAPT fermentation chambers has several tests done on them including being turned on and ran for 3hrs before getting boxed up. Testing includes heating and cooling tests.
- Every fridge has the refrigeration system pressurized to double the working pressure and also put under vacuum and checked for pressure decay prior to being filled with refrigerant.
- Every output include heating, cooling, LED light are checked prior to packaging
- All RAPT fermentation chambers are inspected for physical defects prior to being packaged
Given the above I am not sure its accurate to say no quality control or testing is done.

Fan Suitability
I am not sure it's really correct to say the fan "looks like a computer fan" and therefor be concerned that it is not suitable for it's application. It is not a computer fan and this fan is NEVER used in computer cases. The fan we use is a powerful AC model of fan that can be mounted in any orientation. The fan model we use is:
Fan Manufacturer: Xiangyu Group
Fan Name: Energy Saving EC Axial Fan (AC Model)
Fan Model: XY-12025B2H
When selecting the fan type we selected this model because it simply moved much more air than the other models we tried and was electrically quite efficient and the fan came with 10 year warranty. We did try some silent fans too (and you are welcome to swap it over for a silent fan if you like as it's a standard 150mm fan type so compatible with many other fan models. With that said when we tried the "silent" fans that were substantially quieter but they simply did not work as well and we noticed much larger differential temperature in the top/bottom/back/front of the fridge. The fan we have selected moves a lot of air and thus keeps the whole fridge a much more consistent temperature which was really one of our primary objectives.

Fan Shroud Vibration
If you are getting a loud sound (that is beyond the sound of the fan blowing air) then the most likely source of this is the fan vibrating against the fridge body or a wire for the fan hitting the fan blade. If the fridge gets a knock in transit then it's possible for something to have changed position and this may have caused the issue. The good thing is that the fan shroud is relatively easy to remove with phillips head screw driver and check it is mounted securely and no wires are touching the fan blades. If however you have a problem with this you can always exercise your option to return the item for refund, get a replacement as this is in our terms and conditions. With that said many customers accept a credit from us instead as this is a faster resolution than shipping large units back and forth and often it's something that can be resolved without the need to ship these large bulky items around.

Real Life Testing Before Release
The RAPT fermentation chambers were being tested for more than 12 months prior to being released and the testing was being done by real brewers. So I am not sure its fair to say we have not done testing. Yes we have recently made a G1.1 model that has some small changes including the stainless steel shroud and front edge which you can see in the attached images. We are contently taking feedback from our customer base who frequently make requests for changes or feature upgrades and these are generally responded to quickly which is why we come up with these upgrades. With that said even the G1.0 models worked great and I still use this model at home myself and love it. I am not sure it's the right thing to conclude that we have a G1.1 model now and this model should have been the one in the initial release. If we did this we would never release anything as we are constantly improving our whole range of products. Really our job is to make sure that we supply a great value product that works as intended and I think we do this quite well.

I'm not sure why you choose now to reply to a comment made well over a year ago, unless it's just an excuse to spruik the virtues of the G1.1 somewhere other than in your own thread.

Take a look at #88:
"Honestly, you guys single handedly changed the face of home brewing here in Australia (when you were at KegKing) you bought affordable (cheap) gear to the masses, maybe not on par with the real gear but perfectly useable, what has happened since then? Why have you lost your way?"

As you can see, I'm not entirely unsympathetic to your cause, but I think using your customers as product testers is unacceptable. Innovation, and product development is to be applauded, pushing product to market without sufficient testing is not.

Just a couple of observations:

The maltzilla that was sold with a mounting tab snapped off due to bad design, and this from a review:
"Yes this mill will get jammed!!! The problem l found was that the gap between the non driven wheel and the side housing is big enough to get grain caught between it. My remedy is to cut out a shim from a ice cream container lid and place it between the wheel and side housing. The shim needs to be as big as the housing (internal) and to fit over the adjustment (calibration) handle of the mil. The shim should overlap the 2 wheels to keep this gap closed! After having done this, l have never had the mill jam up on me again"
So spend $200 on a grain mill, then have to pull it apart and mod it to get it to work reliably? How well was this tested?

The boiler that was going to be sold with a single tri-clover outlet. 118L (31GALLON) KEGMENTER 304 STAINLESS - UNI TANK - PRESSURISABLE FERMENTER OR DISTILLATION BOILER
Check old posts on your thread, I pointed out that it wouldn't work because if you put a heating element into the single outlet where would the drain tap go, pretty simple stuff really, I was banned from the KL thread for my troubles, but lo and behold when it finally hit the market it had two tri-clovers. If just one person had tested it just once the design flaw would have been obvious.

There's many other instances, and deleting posts, banning people, and gaining favour through site sponsorship may work in the short term, but eventually you just end up alienating people.

Good luck with your future endeavours, if you can get real world testing done, and QC here in Australia rather than at point of origin you'll be on a winner.

 

[BillCipp]

Hey guys at Kegland and Rapt, saw the thread here and had to comment. You should allow a Hysteresis setting both ways on the cooling. Allowing the cooling to shut off early before it gets to the setpoint will help eliminate overshoot due to residual cooling from the evaporator. Your Hysteresis settings are currently only allowing a lag to turn the cooling and heating on which seems backwards. I worked on ambient hi/lo chambers and we always shut down the compressor early, sometimes 2 degrees F before hitting setpoint. We use PID heating to buffer any overshoot with finite heating. In warmer climates or labs without air conditioning we would adjust the Hysteresis to maybe 1/2 degree of the setpoint which allowed the compressor to run closer to the set point before shut down. Just a thought

 

[Paulie boy]

I'm not sure why you choose now to reply to a comment made well over a year ago, unless it's just an excuse to spruik the virtues of the G1.1 somewhere other than in your own thread.

Take a look at #88:
"Honestly, you guys single handedly changed the face of home brewing here in Australia (when you were at KegKing) you bought affordable (cheap) gear to the masses, maybe not on par with the real gear but perfectly useable, what has happened since then? Why have you lost your way?"

As you can see, I'm not entirely unsympathetic to your cause, but I think using your customers as product testers is unacceptable. Innovation, and product development is to be applauded, pushing product to market without sufficient testing is not.

Just a couple of observations:

The maltzilla that was sold with a mounting tab snapped off due to bad design, and this from a review:
"Yes this mill will get jammed!!! The problem l found was that the gap between the non driven wheel and the side housing is big enough to get grain caught between it. My remedy is to cut out a shim from a ice cream container lid and place it between the wheel and side housing. The shim needs to be as big as the housing (internal) and to fit over the adjustment (calibration) handle of the mil. The shim should overlap the 2 wheels to keep this gap closed! After having done this, l have never had the mill jam up on me again"
So spend $200 on a grain mill, then have to pull it apart and mod it to get it to work reliably? How well was this tested?

The boiler that was going to be sold with a single tri-clover outlet. 118L (31GALLON) KEGMENTER 304 STAINLESS - UNI TANK - PRESSURISABLE FERMENTER OR DISTILLATION BOILER
Check old posts on your thread, I pointed out that it wouldn't work because if you put a heating element into the single outlet where would the drain tap go, pretty simple stuff really, I was banned from the KL thread for my troubles, but lo and behold when it finally hit the market it had two tri-clovers. If just one person had tested it just once the design flaw would have been obvious.

There's many other instances, and deleting posts, banning people, and gaining favour through site sponsorship may work in the short term, but eventually you just end up alienating people.

Good luck with your future endeavours, if you can get real world testing done, and QC here in Australia rather than at point of origin you'll be on a winner.

Hey mate you seem to know your stuff,I’m using a 50ltr William warn brew keg,was using a kegland thermo,what would be your recommendation for a second hand fridge for fermentation,like making lager and sold fridge and stuff when I came here,thanks kept brew keg

 

[kiwizznz]

Just on the thermal mass thing air vs etc. Could be a silly idea but for those only using half the fridge while fermenting, fill the other half with a tank of water? Would take longer to heat/cool but assume temps would be a lot more stable?

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Hey guys at Kegland and Rapt, saw the thread here and had to comment. You should allow a Hysteresis setting both ways on the cooling. Allowing the cooling to shut off early before it gets to the setpoint will help eliminate overshoot due to residual cooling from the evaporator. Your Hysteresis settings are currently only allowing a lag to turn the cooling and heating on which seems backwards. I worked on ambient hi/lo chambers and we always shut down the compressor early, sometimes 2 degrees F before hitting setpoint. We use PID heating to buffer any overshoot with finite heating. In warmer climates or labs without air conditioning we would adjust the Hysteresis to maybe 1/2 degree of the setpoint which allowed the compressor to run closer to the set point before shut down. Just a thought

I would not be too concerned about overshoot in the air temp. The air has hardly any thermal mass and just because you overshoot the air temp by 2F it doesn't mean the liquid in the fermenter has overshot by 2F.

If we were to turn off the compressor 2F before we got to the set temp you will find that your fermenter would run hotter than you want. For instance if you were trying to maintain a temperature of 65F then you would find that it would stay above 67F for a long time before you actually hit the target set point.

Really if you want the best results you want to use the pill hydrometer that specifically allows you to overshoot the set point so you can get to the desired fermenter temperature faster. For instance I often ferment at 18C but when I transfer wort on my brew day into the fermenter it goes into the fermenter at about 30C. It would take about 1-2 days to get the core fermenter temp down to 18C in normal conditions. If however I use the pill hydrometer then set the allowed sensor differential to 10C I will get much better performance as this means I can force the air temp in the fridge space down to 8C and get the core wort in the fermenter down to 18C in under 12hrs and then once the core of the fermenter hits the set point the fridge will just cycle on/off within the hysteresis setting.

So I think it's important to remember you are trying to achieve a core fermenter temperature not an air temperature as they are two very different things.