Racking Vessel Help

[quantocks]

probably been asked before, so if it has, excuse my ignorance I couldn't find much using search.

I have my first brew almost done fermenting and I was wondering since I don't have my keg setup yet, would I be able to rack the beer from the fermenter into something else and keep it there for another two weeks before I get my keg system going or will it go "off" and get infected? if i remove it off the yeast cake would it be okay?

I don't really want to bottle, but will if I have to. Also, if i racked to one of them army disposal square drums for a week or two would it improve my beer ?

 

[wakkatoo]

shouldn't have any probs racking to another container. I do exactly this to a 20L plastic jerry can for any beer I decide to cold condition. Never had a problem with oxidation either. Ideally the container would be purged with CO2 before putting your beer in there but I've found that there is a little fermenting action happening anyway (jerry swells slightly) which would put a protective co2 layer on top of the beer anyway.

Cheers

Chris

 

[Bribie G]

Although I bottle I've recently started to rack my lagers and will possibly rack all my brews to treat with Polyclar chill haze clearing agent. Ideally you should fridge it (personally I would hesitate to rack and then leave final gravity beer at room temperature unless you are in a cool area where it could sit at less than about 18 degrees for the couple of weeks or alternatively fill the container almost to the top and maybe add a wee bit of 'priming' sugars, say only about 30g to cause a slow secondary fermentation to flush the air space and just think of it as a bloody big bottle ).

I bought a jerry can from Bunnings a few days ago and the current options are:

20 and 25 litre upright 'slim' jerry cans - top-range 'Willow' brand with a tap hole, starting at around $20 plus a couple of dollars for a tap. The most space efficient in a fridge.
25 litre cylindrical vessels that are basically the same as Home Brew Shops' screw top fermenters - $15
Interesting 15 litre cubes which are actually cube shaped with handle - I'm thinking that two of those would do nicely to lager a brew formulated to 30 litres. Only around $12 each.

Photo shows the 20 litre skinny and my 25 litre barrel which is virtually identical to the Bunnings. With a couple of 30 litres in the background for scale.


cheers
Michael

 

[l7edwards]

A quick question, if i may, re racking proceedure before kegging. I also have recently got a key set up and need to rack a beer while its waiting to get into the keg.

My proceedure so far is
1. After ferment place finings in brew, leave for a day
2. Sanitise and sterilise 20L racking vessel and racking hose
3. Place fermenter on a table 1metre above racking vessel (on ground)
4. Attach one end of plastic foodgrade hose to fermenter tap and the other to 20L water container
5. Open tap slowly, so to avoid splashing of beer, drain fermenter
6. Age beer in racking vessel at room temp (ale at the moment)

How is my proceedure? Will this proceedure lead to oxidisation and kill my beer?

Thanks

 

[RobboMC]

Just a quick idea,
when you are ready to open the tap, consider what gravity it about to do.

The bigger the difference between the two levels of liquid, the more 'drive' gravity has.

So I start with BOTH vessels on the table, open the tap and gradually lift the empty vessel and lower it SLOWLY.

This allows the liquid to run SLOWLY into the receiving vessel. When there is a few centimetrs of liquid covering the
inlet, continue lowering and when there's say 5 litres in there put in on the floor and let it run.

I feel this reduces the splashing at the start of the transfer.

 

[Bribie G]

If you are racking in order to get the beer off the yeast cake and hold it in 'suspended' animation while you are waiting for an empty keg, again I would suggest adding a small amount of priming sugar to 'flush' the air space. This would 'grow' a new crop of yeast in the beer but it will be fresh yeast, will sink to the bottom and work from there, and you shouldn't have any problems with 'autolysis' as it's new yeast and on kegging day it shouldn't rack over to your keg. Alternatively if you already have a keg set-up, you obviously have CO2 available, so why not just flush the cube with gas then also flush the airspace after racking? If you do this then ageing in the cube is really not much different to ageing in the keg other than the 'saturation' levels of CO2 in the beer. [Edit: there's even a thread somewhere where some guys actually use cubes as an alternative to kegs and are getting good results.]

I use exactly the same tap and hose procedure as you describe, when I bulk prime for bottling and have no problems with oxidation if the beer is only very briefly exposed to air. Any oxygen introduced is quickly used up as the yeast goes 'aerobic' in the bottles while it feeds on the priming sugar.

<digression>
The only concern I have is, that being a Pom I'm familiar with 'Real Ale' where the ale is delivered in casks to the pub where it is fined and undergoes around a week of 'ageing' and secondary fermentation then is served to the bar by mechanical hand pump or electic pump. As the cask empties, air finds its way into the cask and thus the cask must be served fairly quickly to avoid oxidation. And I can well remember the 'vinegar' pints that I have drunk!! :icon_vomit:

Publicans know all about this and if they aren't a high volume pub they often blanket the beer in the cask with CO2, not to force the beer to the bar as in a kegging system, but to keep the airspace flushed. This is known as 'cask breathing' and is a source of controversy among the purists in the UK Real Ale movement.

So in your case the UK publicans would all be telling you "keep that airspace free of oxygen and you should be ok"

<end of digression>

 

[reviled]

Wheres the thread on using cubes instead of kegs? I didnt think they would hold the pressure?

I am VERY interested in this, if it works, im super keen to try it :icon_cheers:

 

[wakkatoo]

My proceedure so far is
1. After ferment place finings in brew, leave for a day

Wouldn't even bother with the finings. I've never used them and don't ever plan to. Cold conditioning the beer in a plastic jerry clears the beer up really well. IMO finings are a waste of money.

 

[peas_and_corn]

A quick question, if i may, re racking proceedure before kegging. I also have recently got a key set up and need to rack a beer while its waiting to get into the keg.

My proceedure so far is
1. After ferment place finings in brew, leave for a day
2. Sanitise and sterilise 20L racking vessel and racking hose
3. Place fermenter on a table 1metre above racking vessel (on ground)
4. Attach one end of plastic foodgrade hose to fermenter tap and the other to 20L water container
5. Open tap slowly, so to avoid splashing of beer, drain fermenter
6. Age beer in racking vessel at room temp (ale at the moment)

How is my proceedure? Will this proceedure lead to oxidisation and kill my beer?

Thanks

It's fine. IMO the risk of oxidation is far overstated and unless the beer splashes like crazy while you're racking you won't have any problems. Just a bit of advice you might consider, what hose do you use? The food grade plastic hose they sell at the hardware stores tend to have 'memory' and are difficult to rest on the bottom of the fermenter. Silicon hosing doesn't have that problem and is awesome as it can handle high temp liquids

 

[Bribie G]

Cubes used as kegs: Reviled, I'll try and find the thread for you. They use metal 'straps' to stop the cube bulgeing and it occurred to me that you could probably use those toothed 'straps' that you can use to hold bundles of cables together and US Highway Patrol cops use as temporary handcuffs :unsure: Forget what they are called...

 

[quantocks]

Cubes used as kegs: Reviled, I'll try and find the thread for you. They use metal 'straps' to stop the cube bulgeing and it occurred to me that you could probably use those toothed 'straps' that you can use to hold bundles of cables together and US Highway Patrol cops use as temporary handcuffs :unsure: Forget what they are called...

I think you mean cable ties?

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...p;hl=cube++kegs

that's the thread for Cubes as dispensing kegs

 

[mwd]

Cable Ties: Come in lots of sizes usually in packs of 100 from Electrical wholesalers. Useful for all kinds of weird and wonderful jobs. You can join them together to make a long one. h34r:

Quantocks beat me to it..

 

[buttersd70]

My thought is with the others (to a point), shich is that its not a problem. I do things slightly differently to whats been posted here.
I wait for primary fermentation to finish, 2 days of constant grav readings in a row (for ale), or 2 constant grav readings 48 hours apart (for a lager). Once fermentation is complete, I rack immediately. I don't leave it on the yeast cake. After racking, I leave it at brew temperature for 48hrs (sometimes 72, depending on what yeast I'm using.) Then I fridge it.

There are a couple of reasons for this.

If primary has just finished, racking will rouse the yeast slightly, and it can kick over again. (lets face it, racking is one of the possible things to do with a stuck ferment.) It may not have much activity, but to me, it seems that it is enough to a/ create a co2 blanket without addition of extra fermentables, and b/ perform a diacetyl rest.

This is secondary fermentation. Which is distinct and seperate to cold conditioning. Whilst it is at brew temp, it is in secondary. After it is chilled, it is in cold condition (or tertiary).

Bear in mind, (before some people flame me), that this is valid only when racked early after primary stops, before too much yeast drops out. If you hang about for 5 days after primary before racking, thats a completely different kettle of fish, and is not what I am referring to. If it is racked as soon as primary has finished, when there is a lot of yeast left in suspension, there is ample yeast to perform these functions.

If it has been left on the cake, then carefully rack (preferably with co2 flush) and immediately chill.

Just my 2c.

 

[Bribie G]

Cubes used as kegs:

Off topic but here's the link:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...ssure%20Barrels

 

[Cortez The Killer]

If kegging I wouldn't bother racking - leave the beer in the fermenter until the kegs are right to go - 2 weeks isn't very long

Cheers

 

[buttersd70]

If it has been left on the cake, then carefully rack (preferably with co2 flush) and immediately chill.

Unless as cortez correctly points out, you are kegging. In which case just get it into the keg. Or unless you are going to be using a process aid of some sort, such as polyclar. In which case, you will need to rack.