Questions From A New Homebrewer

[Chad_UWA]

Hi all,

A friend and I started homebrewing a couple of months ago, and after doing a fair bit of research I've come up with a few questions:

1) Currently we are just doing K&K (I'm looking to move into partials soon, but need to read up on it), and in the fermenter at the moment is a Beez Neez clone:

Beermakers LAGER + 1kg Wheat Malt + 12g Pride of Ringwood FINISHING Infusion Bag + Muntons Gold Yeast + 500g honey (+ 200g golden syrup, which we added as an experiment)

The yeast hasn't kicked off as good as in our previous brews (we didn't rehydrate it or anything, but will in the future), and I think it's because it's not getting enough nutrients. The honey and golden syrup seem to settle at the bottom very quickly, and there is a definite colour gradient in the wort. I was wondering, since the yeast (ale) sits on top, and everything else sinks, how does it consume all the fermentable ingredients? What should I do? Should I open it up and give it a stir? I'm just worried that might risk infection, and it will just settle all over again anyway. Also, what's in the whitish layer at the bottom of the wort (the trub?)? Is it just particles from the malt? Which brings me to my next question...

2) I read an article about whirlpooling, and just generally removing the trub from the wort before fermenting, but isn't some of the stuff in the trub used by the yeast? Or does all the good stuff dissolve out?

3) When doing K&K should I be boiling the LME (and whatever else I add) for an extended period (as you do in AG), instead of just dissolving the ingredients in hot water in the fermenter? If so, then how fast should I cool it? And will I get a hot break using LME?

4) I've read about filtering the beer as you bottle it, but haven't actually found out how you would go about doing that. Any advice/links would be appreciated.

5) Also, is a stick-on thermometer on the side of the fermenter accurate enough? Or does it just measure the ambient temperature?

6) I've read about cold conditioning the brew before bottling, but, if you move the fermenter out of the fridge (or ice slurry bucket as would be in our case) to the place you are going to bottle (kitchen bench), presumably it will get a bit shaken up. So will it remain cold enough to re-settle all the particles, and how long should I leave it before bottling?

7) I like the idea of dry-hopping, but is it pointless with K&K brewing, seeing as it's quite a basic brewing method and isn't really going for complex flavours?
If it's not pointless and would in fact improve my beer, what hops would you suggest adding to the above brew, if any?

8) Also, I'm looking in to getting a fridge to fit with a Fridgemate, does anyone in Perth know which suburbs are having their roadside large rubbish collection soon? I've seen plenty of fridges dumped out when we did it in my suburb. Or could someone suggest somewhere else I could get one cheap (poor uni student here).

9) Has anyone ever made a recipe to clone Dux de Lux Alpine Ale (Dux de Lux site) or similar. I tried when I was in NZ last year and it was delicious.

Right, that's about it, sorry to have such a huge post.

Thanks in advance to any help I get
Chad

 

[lokpikn]

Welcome to AHB its the best beer info site in the WORLD. Well i think so any ways

I cant answer all your questions but maybe a few.

1 Dont open the fermenter just pick it up and give it a swill around to try and move the layer of yeast around. I would not worry to much about re hydrating but it is a good idea. When the yeast gets active it will consume those sugars that have sunk to the bottom but next time throw the adjuncts in the boil in the last minute or so

2 whirl pooling will push a lot of proteins to the center but some all ways get through but will settle out any way not to sure if there is any stuff there that the yeast want but you will need a tap to whirlpool properly mounted on your pot at the bottom.

3 I would boil it for about 10 to 15 minutes should be enough then just cool it in the sink making sure no forien matters get in. should be cool enough in about 30 to 45 minutes. You may need to change the water once or twice.

4 filter smilter. Its a tough call but i don't do it and get good beer it one of those some do some don't thing

5 stick on thermometers give a good basic temp and for the cost of them are well worth the money. I'm sure if you have your fermenter next to the heater it may give a dickey reading but they are ok

6 i do the same cold condition and them move it around. Let it sit for a few minutes as you get all you stuff clean and it will settel out a bit. Some bottles may get a bit of yeast and stuff in it but thats ok as well. Just makes you fart more

7 MMMMM Dry hopping. Is all good it may just be a kit and kilo but it will impart some nice flavor to your beer. Maybe not POR try anointer Nobel hop. You could boil some foe 10 to 15 min in you DME to impart more flavor as well.

8 and 9 i cant help you with

 

[Chad_UWA]

Thanks lokpikn,

10) If you boil the LME, how come you have to cool it anyway? Wouldn't putting it in the fermenter with ~20L of cool water bring it down to pitching coon enough anyway?

Chad

 

[bonj]

I'm no K&K expert, having done really simple K&K for years before moving straight to AG. You would be surprised how much movement there actually is inside the fermenter, so the yeast should get through all your sugars without having to mix it up, but a fermenter rock won't harm anything.

 

[lokpikn]

Thanks lokpikn,

10) If you boil the LME, how come you have to cool it anyway? Wouldn't putting it in the fermenter with ~20L of cool water bring it down to pitching coon enough anyway?

Chad

Your spot on sorry chad. As long as the temp is within the right range before pitching the yeast. If you cool it down before hand it will be a lower temp all up than if you put boiling liquid into the complete wort and then waiting for the whole lot to come down to the right temp to pitch.

Hope this makes cents ive had a few now :beer:

 

[Chad_UWA]

Came up with a couple more questions

11) The guy at the homebrew store told us to add 0.5kg of corn syrup to increase the head retention and body of our beers. Is he talking smack? Is it doing anything else to our brews that I should know about?

12) Also, anyone in Perth got any bottles they want to get rid of? We're struggling to find enough.

13) Are carbonation drops actually any better than sugar? We pay the extra for them at the moment, but are they actually doing us any good?

Thanks again for your help guys,
Chad

 

[sponge]

Came up with a couple more questions

11) The guy at the homebrew store told us to add 0.5kg of corn syrup to increase the head retention and body of our beers. Is he talking smack? Is it doing anything else to our brews that I should know about?

12) Also, anyone in Perth got any bottles they want to get rid of? We're struggling to find enough.

13) Are carbonation drops actually any better than sugar? We pay the extra for them at the moment, but are they actually doing us any good?

Thanks again for your help guys,
Chad

11. Corn syrup, if im not mistaken, is maltodextrin, which is something like only 30% fermentable, and yes, it does help with body and head retention of beeries

12. wrong side of australia mate

13. carbonation drops are just a pre-measured amount of sugar. I only did my first couple of batches with them, and just use normal white sugar and a measuring spoon now. 1tsp/longie, 0.5tsp/stubbie. Hell of a lot cheaper that way

 

[bonj]

Came up with a couple more questions

11) The guy at the homebrew store told us to add 0.5kg of corn syrup to increase the head retention and body of our beers. Is he talking smack? Is it doing anything else to our brews that I should know about?

12) Also, anyone in Perth got any bottles they want to get rid of? We're struggling to find enough.

13) Are carbonation drops actually any better than sugar? We pay the extra for them at the moment, but are they actually doing us any good?

Thanks again for your help guys,
Chad

The corn syrup (or more accurately referred to as maltodextrin) is a long chain or complex sugar that isn't easily converted by the yeast and so increases the body and head retention of your beer. You can do the same by using all malt, which you seem to have done already. It is really to make up for the inadequacies of using a kilo of sugar.

I can't help you out with bottles I'm afraid... too far away

Carbonation drops aren't any better in terms of the final finished beer, but they do make bottling a hell of a lot easier. Bottling is tedious enough as it is, so I prefer to use them when bottle conditioning.

 

[Shortz]

13. With the carbonation drops, i stopped using them as i thought adding the sugar would dissolve better to give more consistent carbonation. Drops seemed hard and would take a while to dissolve. Does this make sense to anyone??

To cool my wort i use a get a 2litre ice cream tub, fill with water, freeze the night before, makes a nice ice cube that brings the temp down nicely. from 70 degrees to almost right in a short time.

My experience of home brew stores was that depending on where it is, you will pay more or less for the same product. Whether they are part of a chain as well will influence the price too. I know that as home brewers price isn't all we're worried about...but something to keep in mind

If you need bottles, hit up ebay, it might help.

 

[Brewtus]

13. With the carbonation drops, i stopped using them as i thought adding the sugar would dissolve better to give more consistent carbonation. Drops seemed hard and would take a while to dissolve. Does this make sense to anyone??

They take about an hour or less but can avoid a volcano effect when bottling as the surface area of the lolly is less than all those sugar crystals.

 

[Mantis]

You shouldnt get volcanos if you add sugar to the bottle first then fill . That being said, I am using drops now that I am kegging and only bottling 4-5 bottles after filling a keg and they work fine.

 

[wambesi]

Came up with a couple more questions

11) The guy at the homebrew store told us to add 0.5kg of corn syrup to increase the head retention and body of our beers. Is he talking smack? Is it doing anything else to our brews that I should know about?

12) Also, anyone in Perth got any bottles they want to get rid of? We're struggling to find enough.

13) Are carbonation drops actually any better than sugar? We pay the extra for them at the moment, but are they actually doing us any good?

Thanks again for your help guys,
Chad

1. Already been answered pretty much, in my simpler brews I would add some, but then when I started using mostly dried malt extract (DME) I stopped, ended up giving a kilo away earlier this year...

3. IMO no. I found they sometimes gave an uneven carbonation rate as not all the drops are uniform in size, I used to do the sugar per bottle method however got myself an extra fermenter (now too many...) and read up on bulk priming - now it's the only way I do it and have never looked back.

In relation to your first post, I think whirlpooling is a waste of time with K&K as their is not really much trub etc, hasn't been with my K&K's and extracts anyway, dry hopping is something you can do with any method, certainly made some of my K&K's that much better than they would have been.

I used to boil some of my malt extract but not all, apparently it can darken if boiled too long, so I would usually boil half of it or so with hops etc, then on flame out add the rest.

Enjoy the new hobby mate, it will turn into an obsession, about to put my first AG down this weekend.... :beerbang:

 

[Pennywise]

Came up with a couple more questions

11) The guy at the homebrew store told us to add 0.5kg of corn syrup to increase the head retention and body of our beers. Is he talking smack? Is it doing anything else to our brews that I should know about?

12) Also, anyone in Perth got any bottles they want to get rid of? We're struggling to find enough.

13) Are carbonation drops actually any better than sugar? We pay the extra for them at the moment, but are they actually doing us any good?

Thanks again for your help guys,
Chad

11. Don't put in half a kilo of corn syrup, 200g max, and if you're using malt cut it back to 100g max. It will give you'r brew a thick syrup taste if over used

13. IMOH sugar is more accurate, I used to use carb drops but found some of my beers were more carbonated than others because not all the carb drops are exactly the same size, you also can't measure for beers like stouts that generally have a lower carb.

 

[RedDwarf]

Hi Chad,
I'll try answer some from my experiences. There is plenty of info to be found in searching this forum...

1) There should be plenty of nutrients in the beer kit for the yeast, even more with the malt you've added. I've done kits before where the goo wasn't mixed properly, pretty much all the goo sitting on the bottom. Made no difference, the yeasties still chewed through it after a week or so.

3) I boiled my first couple of brews but not any more. Doesn't seem to make any difference for me. If boiling for hops maybe add some malt to that.

5) Stick ons are ok, accurate to within a few degrees. Don't get em too wet though or the're stuffed!

11) Maltodextrin (called corn syrup in the US i think) can make the beer too sweet if you use too much. I prefer to just use extra malt.

13) Carb drops are just a sugar lolly to make it easier to measure. Although I have had some inconsistant carbonation using them. I use the bulk priming method now.

As Wambesi said, what starts as a hobby leads to obsession!

Cheers,
Mick.

 

[Chad_UWA]

Thanks for all your help guys

I'm really looking forward to my next brew now.

Chad

 

[rimrunner]

10) If you boil the LME, how come you have to cool it anyway? Wouldn't putting it in the fermenter with ~20L of cool water bring it down to pitching coon enough anyway?

Chad

sorry about late posting.

science says heat transfers fastest with a higher tempreture difference. so if you cool 5l of hot wort you will cool it faster than if you try cooling 20l of not as hot wort. and you ideally want to reach the correct temperature quickly.

i found trying to cool a fermenter MUCH harder than just getting it to the right tempreture in the first place. though if you have a way to cool all your fermenter water and some nifty maths you can work out how much water you need at a certain tempreture to get the desired final tempreture when you add the hot wort.