Question For All You Belgian Experts

[JonnyAnchovy]

Hey all- I'm brewing my first Belgian dark stron ale this weekend, an am thinking of using golden promise as my base malt (will also have Munich, aromatic, special b, carahell, and candi syrup.
I know it is more traditional to use a pilsner base, but Im hoping in a beer this big the difference between pils and gp won't matter all that much.

Should I go out and get some pils? What are peoples experience or advice on using British malts in Belgian beers?

 

[manticle]

NOT a belgian expert by any means. Lover of belgian ales, yes, brewer of belgian ales yes. Most have been average, a couple of recent ones very promising.

However from my reading and experience the pale malt you use will be less important than your yeast and yeast treatment coupled with ferment and conditioning schedule.

I made a great alt type beer with marris otter. Certainly tasted different and maybe not BJCP certified but definitely tasty which is the end desired result.

 

[petesbrew]

NOT a belgian expert by any means. Lover of belgian ales, yes, brewer of belgian ales yes. Most have been average, a couple of recent ones very promising.

However from my reading and experience the pale malt you use will be less important than your yeast and yeast treatment coupled with ferment and conditioning schedule.

I made a great alt type beer with marris otter. Certainly tasted different and maybe not BJCP certified but definitely tasty which is the end desired result.

I've made a Belgian Pale Ale with JW Trad Ale.
Sadly I haven't tried a commercial PBA, and I haven't tried the recipe with the suggested Pilsner malt, but it was still a beautiful beer - made so with a culture off a fresh vial of WLP-500.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Cheers guys. I can imagine it having a bit of an impact on a dubbel or blond, or lighter colored beer, but with around 10% alcohol and a good whack of specialty malts, I can't imagine it having a massive impact on a dark strong ale.....could be entirely wrong, though.

I'm fairly confident about my fermentation control - planning on starting around 19 for 2-3 days, then letting it free rise up to around 22-23. using a very big starter of 3787 - Trappist high Gravity.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

This is roughly the grainbill I'm looking at.....

7.75 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett)Grain 61.75 %
2.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 15.94 %
1.50 kg Aromatic Malt (Dingemans) (19.0 SRM) Grain 11.95 %
0.30 kg Special B (Dingemans) (147.5 SRM) Grain 2.39 %
0.30 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.39 %
0.20 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 1.59 %
0.50 kg Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 3.98 %

any feedback?

 

[hoohaaman]

Looks very tasty to me,what hopping schedule?

Oh and yeast,sorry just realized 3787

 

[manticle]

What's the final volume? Aromatic and special B looks like a lot at first glance but maybe the batch size is bigger than i'd normally make.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Prob best to look at the percentages - I'm not sure about my final volume yet, but I'll be shooting for just over 1.100.....

might reduce special B to bring the colour down a smidge....

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Looks very tasty to me,what hopping schedule?

Oh and yeast,sorry just realized 3787

Will be hopped to around 30-35IBUs in a single 60min addition. Probably EKG/leftover nelson sauvin flowers.....

 

[hoohaaman]

Will be hopped to around 30-35IBUs in a single 60min addition. Probably EKG/leftover nelson sauvin flowers.....

Sounds good,the NS will add an interesting complexity.

 

[MHB]

I'm very happy with the results I'm getting with the Dingermans Pilsner Malt if you can get hold of it try some Strissellspalt. For the most authentic Belgian taste, keep the grain bill really simple, just bittering hops and let the yeast do the hard yards. Oh and long mash long boil

MHB

 

[drtomc]

I make no claims to being an expert brewer of Belgians, but let me +1 what MHB says.

I've read quite a bit, and on the basis of some experience, I reckon a less-is-more approach to the grain bill is a good idea. Using a big % of base malts with a very light touch of the others will also help with fermentability which at OG 1.100 is going to be the biggest obstacle to a good result. You could easily go a higher percentage of simple sugars, and the use of dark candi sugar can help you control the colour.

Those yeasts can sing! if you let them.

HTH,
T.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Cheers all. think I might bring down the crystal percentages a little....

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

This is roughly the grainbill I'm looking at.....

7.75 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett)Grain 61.75 %
2.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 15.94 %
1.50 kg Aromatic Malt (Dingemans) (19.0 SRM) Grain 11.95 %
0.30 kg Special B (Dingemans) (147.5 SRM) Grain 2.39 %
0.30 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.39 %
0.20 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 1.59 %
0.50 kg Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 3.98 %

any feedback?

Grain bill looks ok maybe increase the sugar for the big alcohol thing.
The trick with Belgians is in the fermentation and yeast selection, your schedule looks fine, but do'nt be afraid to let it creep into the high 20's after a couple of days. I am not too sure about the hop selection, try Styrians for authenticity.
Just brew the bugger.

 

[manticle]

To my mind and from my experience too much crystal + spec B + 3787 could make for a mighty rich brew that will only work if everything is in balance.

I don't think rich belgians are that easy but you won't know unless you try. As mentioned before though - actual grist is less than half a successful, rich tasting, balanced, successful belgian style.

Best of luck.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

3787 STILL fermenting away with lots of visable action..... begining to think I didn't adequatly aerate..... hope I hit the attenuation I'm after.....

 

[drtomc]

How did this go in the end?

T.