Quality Of Kit Yeasts

[beerandgarden]

I was going to ask this on olly4891's Define 'pitching' Of Yeast?, sprinkle, stir, shake or pour... thread but then I reckoned this is a different topic worthy of it's own thread.

Ill start by mentioning that I usually use Coopers extract kits, generally with the crappy dry yeast packet taped to the top. I know there will be plenty of people telling me to ditch that yeast and buy something better, which I will do from now on, but my problem still remains as to how exactly do I add the yeast to the wort?

I always rehydrate & proof my dried yeast...using John Palmers method of warmish water for 15mins, teaspoon of sugar for 15mins.

I'd like to know is the Coopers yeast really crappy? olly4891 probably read that in Palmer's book about tossing out the kit yeasts, I read it there myself and he certinly gives the impression that all kit yeasts are crappy. But elsewhere he also recommends Coopers Ale Yeast as a good quality yeast. So isn't that what comes with the Coopers cans? His main concern with kit yeasts seems to be lack of expiration date, but I reckon that's not an issue because I would assume the yeast is as fresh as the can and anyway according to Palmer himself, a fresh can of extract is as important, if not more so, than fresh yeast.

Can anyone with experience/knowledge of various brands/strains of yeast comment on the quality of kit yeasts such as Coppers, Black Rock, etc.?

 

[manticle]

Coopers ale yeast that is found in the bottom of the commercial bottles is a great strain and can be reharvested for use.

It is different to the yeast that comes with the kits.

The main issues I can see with the kit yeasts are as follows:

1. They are generic. A decent yeast strain can give specific characteristics that can add to your beer. For example, if you wanted fruity esters and a minerally finish, one of the various liquid UK strains (often associated with a commercial brewery) will be essential. You will struggle to brew anything even slightly Belgian in style without the right yeast.

2. They are very small packets and you are more than likely not pitching enough yeast. This can lead to flavour problems and stalled fermentations.

3. They are housed in the lid and the tins are kept on shelves at ambient temperatures. Yeast is better kept cool. An old tin will contain old yeast kept in bad conditions.

None of that means the quality of the yeast strain itself (in a kit sachet) is bad but buying the right amount of well kept yeast that is appropriate for the style/beer type you want to make will make a big difference to your brewing.

 

[flano]

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=48946&hl=

this helped me.

 

[going down a hill]

I have just done a little test with splitting a wort into two and using Cascade kit yeast VS Windsor, the difference is there to taste, the Windsor has a fuller flavour whilst the kit yeast is just plain and definitely thinner on the pallet. These have only been from hydrometer readings, I like to see how the beer matures. I'm a convert and wont be using the kit yeast any more.

 

[Pennywise]

I keep and use the Coopers kit yeasts as long as it's a fresh pack/tin. I find they make great beers, but like manticle said, you wouldn't get a Belgian using it, and fresh yeast is always a must, does make nice APA's though. The older packs I tend to throw in the boil for the last few mins and use them as a yeast nutrient.

 

[manticle]

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=48946&hl=

this helped me.

I'm sure it did but what does it have to do with the question at hand?

 

[flano]

I'm sure it did but what does it have to do with the question at hand?

I was sort of answering the question in the question I guess.

the bit where it says how do you add the yeast.

 

[beerandgarden]

I keep and use the Coopers kit yeasts as long as it's a fresh pack/tin. I find they make great beers, but like manticle said, you wouldn't get a Belgian using it, and fresh yeast is always a must, does make nice APA's though. The older packs I tend to throw in the boil for the last few mins and use them as a yeast nutrient.

So if you are brewing a Coopers kit you usually use the kit yeast? What about other kit brands - same deal?

 

[beerandgarden]

Coopers ale yeast that is found in the bottom of the commercial bottles is a great strain and can be reharvested for use.

It is different to the yeast that comes with the kits.

The main issues I can see with the kit yeasts are as follows:

1. They are generic. A decent yeast strain can give specific characteristics that can add to your beer. For example, if you wanted fruity esters and a minerally finish, one of the various liquid UK strains (often associated with a commercial brewery) will be essential. You will struggle to brew anything even slightly Belgian in style without the right yeast.

2. They are very small packets and you are more than likely not pitching enough yeast. This can lead to flavour problems and stalled fermentations.

3. They are housed in the lid and the tins are kept on shelves at ambient temperatures. Yeast is better kept cool. An old tin will contain old yeast kept in bad conditions.

None of that means the quality of the yeast strain itself (in a kit sachet) is bad but buying the right amount of well kept yeast that is appropriate for the style/beer type you want to make will make a big difference to your brewing.

granted that you need a speciality yeast for a speciality beer, do the kit yeasts generally suit the kits they come with? or only in some cases?

 

[Pennywise]

So if you are brewing a Coopers kit you usually use the kit yeast? What about other kit brands - same deal?

No, most of the time I'm using liquid yeast, but occasionally I use the fresh packs of Coopers kit yeasts if I have the right beer for it, and I haven't had the time to get a good liquid culture going. But I do only use the kit yeasts on kits, and it's usually the CPA tin or the Dark Ale tin, the CPA tin has a wierd flavour (kit twang? I dunno) in it that IMO needs to be masked up with alot of grain and hops, I've found that the kit yeast goes well in this situation, really well actually

Edit: I don't use any other brand kits anymore

 

[manticle]

granted that you need a speciality yeast for a speciality beer, do the kit yeasts generally suit the kits they come with? or only in some cases?

That's what I mean by generic. In some cases they might be more suitable - for example the Coopers heritage line will supply a genuine lager yeast as opposed to the basic supermarket kits which will be their in house kit blend.

It's hard to sum up all kits because there are many and some are more specialised. As a rule of thumb though the yeast supplied with coopers draught tin is the same the one in the coopers stout tin(basic range), coopers lager or the real ale tin. Very different styles of beer.

I think some of the other basic coopers range have a hybrid ale/lager yeast including coopers pale and Cerveza.

I wouldn't call a basic UK bitter a specialty beer. The right yeast for the right beer = better brewing. If your brew neeeds neutral yeast character, there are good yeasts available for that too.

 

[beerandgarden]

That's what I mean by generic. In some cases they might be more suitable - for example the Coopers heritage line will supply a genuine lager yeast as opposed to the basic supermarket kits which will be their in house kit blend.

It's hard to sum up all kits because there are many and some are more specialised. As a rule of thumb though the yeast supplied with coopers draught tin is the same the one in the coopers stout tin(basic range), coopers lager or the real ale tin. Very different styles of beer.

I think some of the other basic coopers range have a hybrid ale/lager yeast including coopers pale and Cerveza.

I wouldn't call a basic UK bitter a specialty beer. The right yeast for the right beer = better brewing. If your brew neeeds neutral yeast character, there are good yeasts available for that too.

so what (if any) styles of beers are the kit yeasts (lets take Coopers Original for example) best suited for? My next brew lined up is a Coopers Stout - would you use the kit yeast or something different?

 

[manticle]

When I brewed kits, I brewed the stout using the kit yeast. I also brewed one using Brewcellar English ale yeast (which is repackaged Fermentis S04) and have brewed an AG one using Fermentis US05.

All have worked - to my mind stout is less reliant on yeast character than it is on malt roastiness. However a good yeast will still lend something to the brew and now I wouldn't brew with anything other than a UK style (if making a UK stout - a US stout or an experiment/hybrid would obviously be different).

The only way I can really answer your question is to suggest you brew a stout tin as is with the yeast supplied. Just make sure the tin is fresh.

Then brew a stout tin with a different, more appropriate yeast.

Then try it with a different kit - maybe a real ale kit with the supplied yeast first, then again with some fermentis S04, then again with some Wyeast 1187 Ringwood yeast.

The kit yeast will work - the fact that it is fairly generic means you won't get any way out super dooper yeast character which is good when you're first brewing. If you want to get noticeable yeast character, then you need to use a suitable yeast. Understanding what you want only comes from trying them out (and suitable commercial versions of the beer you want to brew if they exist).

Refer to the rest of my points about why I think kit yeast is often dismissed as better in the bin. It's not just about style.

 

[Bribie G]

As above poster I have used Coopers kit yeast with stout and also dark ales, my one attempt at a Tooheys old style came pretty close. I'm actually doing my headbanger toucan stout this weekend and will just use 2 kit yeasts as I don't have Nottingham at the moment.

A fairly good yeast for doing lagers at higher tmeperature is Morgans Lager yeast as supplied with some of their kits, and can be bought individually - it's made by Mauribrew in Toowoomba and is a very neutral yeast that can run nicely at 18 degrees. Some brewers will disparage it as not being a "real " lager yeast, but Mauri says it is, so where they get that info from I dunno. However it won't make a great Bo Pils or Helles - but fine for a XXXX knockoff or a quick lawnmower - look for the yeast in the blue pack, some places sell it for as little as $2.50 so you can use a couple of packs.

 

[DU99]

i use S33 for my non lager brew's,i write the date on packet of cooper's yeast and use when i have a two the same