Problem With Hops?

[Filby]

Hi

So Ive been brewing a pretty basic APA for the past few months with just using Galaxy hops. First two batches was great with really nice passion-fruit flavors. Hop schedule was 30gm at 60mins and 20gm at whirlpool. Since those first two batches I have been struggling to get any sort of hoppy flavor or aroma to the extent that the last batch has been 40gm at whirlpool and 40gm dry-hopped, and tasting the finished fermented beer it still has very little hop flavor.
I have made a few changes to my process such as going from no-chill to plate chiller, squeezing the bag (BIAB) to get everything out of it and changing from US05 to Nottingham. The biggest change regarding the hops has been changing from pellets to whole flowers. Is it possible that the flowers I have are just not all that flavorsome or is it something in my process? Getting really annoyed as the last 3 batches have been average tasting beer to say the least.

Cheers

Fil

 

[ekul]

Could be the nottingham, i've heard others complain that it strips flavour out. Or it could be that the hops you bought are shit.

 

[scott_penno]

What ekul said re Nottingham.


Go back to pellets and see if the beer turns out the way you expect it. If so, then you can put it down to the flowers.


sap.

 

[bignath]

i reckon yeast also.

I've never used notto, but us05 is (as far as i can tell) a very neutral yeast which will allow anything that dominates to shine. If you've got a lot of hops, you'll notice them with us05, if you've got heaps of malt then you'll notice that too..

Go back to us05 and see what happens.

For what its worth, i've just fermented a double batch aussie ale (thanks tony) but split and fermented one with us05 and the other with 1056 (basically the liquid version) and reportedly similar if not identical to us05. I am sure that the 1056 tastes a little more refined and the us05 a little more "generic"...Will see how it goes.

Interested to hear the resulting solution to your problem if it isn't a yeast issue...

 

[browndog]

if you are chucking 40g of galaxy at whirlpool and 40g dry hop you should be getting hop flavour and aroma up the wazoo regardless of what yeast you are using. I would say your galaxy flowers are shit, or you are not weighing them correctly. Go back to pellets and see if the problem goes away.

-Browndog

 

[mmmyummybeer]

I agree that it is the flowers. I was also under the assumption that when switching from pellets to flowers that you do need to incease the rate, but not as much as you have mentioned. Hop flowers generally are not as stable as pellets. I would also be double checking there condition such as the condition is the lupulin is it a nice brightinsh yellow and not darkened, I guess the biggest problem with buying hop is you don't always know how well they have been stored before you got them. At least you know the pellets were working well so I would switch back to them and hopefully you didn't buy to many in flowers, if so maybe you could use them for bittering.

 

[malt_shovel]

Hi

So Ive been brewing a pretty basic APA for the past few months with just using Galaxy hops. First two batches was great with really nice passion-fruit flavors. Hop schedule was 30gm at 60mins and 20gm at whirlpool. Since those first two batches I have been struggling to get any sort of hoppy flavor or aroma to the extent that the last batch has been 40gm at whirlpool and 40gm dry-hopped, and tasting the finished fermented beer it still has very little hop flavor.
I have made a few changes to my process such as going from no-chill to plate chiller, squeezing the bag (BIAB) to get everything out of it and changing from US05 to Nottingham. The biggest change regarding the hops has been changing from pellets to whole flowers. Is it possible that the flowers I have are just not all that flavorsome or is it something in my process? Getting really annoyed as the last 3 batches have been average tasting beer to say the least.

Cheers

Fil

Hi there,

I think it is a process change. No chill whirlpool addition is essentially the same as a plate chiller flavour addition (say 15 minutes). If it is missing hop flavour and you are still keen to use the plate chiller, I would take the same whirlpool addition you were using for no chill and add it around 15 minutes. Then a final addition at flame-out for aroma. Dry hop around the same amount as the flame-out addition and i think you will be back on track.

Cheers

 

[Filby]

Cheers for all the input.

One other thing I changed was storing the hops in the fridge instead of the freezer...
Still I'll change to US05 and go back to using pellets (means I also dont need to use a hop sock anymore). Will relay back the results on the next batch. Hopefully Im back to galaxy goodness.

Fil

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

My 2c, it could be the yeast etc that others have pointed out, I've only used notto once so not enough experience to comment.

I think it will be the flowers, reason being is that takes a vigorous boil to loosen all that lupulin trapped deep in the flowers. So based on some loose logic, I think you would notice a big difference when you swapped from pellets to flowers at flame out only. I think if your late hop schedule was spread out more, you would get a greater benefit from the flowers.

Cheers

BDB

 

[Nick JD]

You wouldn't be the first to have mis-labeled their hops (or grabbed the wrong ones because you were on your eighth schooner) and made a "Citra (14% AA) IPA" with Hallertau (3.5% AA) - Oh dear!

With kegs, it's always possible to dry hop it to bits and that goes a long way to fix flavour/aroma ... fixing bitterness can be done with a super-concentrated hop boil (ie. the sweet Hallertau ale above).

Fixing drunken brewing? Nah... brewing without drinking is like wearing a condom.

 

[np1962]

It is pretty hard to put a finger on why you are not getting the same results as before.
To say that it is because you are now using flowers instead of pellets is impossible as you have made so many changes.
1 Flowers instead of Pellets
2 Chill instead of no chill
3 Notto instead of US05
4 Hop bag with flowers instead of no hop bag with pellets.
5 Squeezing as opposed to not squeezing.

If you have the patience then go back and change just one thing at a time and see what flavour changes each make.
If you don't have that kind of patience go back and just make beer the way you liked it.
For me, Fresh Flowers are the way to go, but let them swim in the boil. If you really must use a hop sock make sure it is as big as you need to allow the hops to have free movement and not just clumped in the middle of the pot.
Nige

 

[ekul]

i think nige may have found the answer, are you using a hop sock? the flowers may not be able to move enough

 

[Filby]

Yer Im using a hopsock from craftbrewer, the large 250um version. I never felt that the hops were getting a proper soaking in the boil hence another reason to go back to pellets. I cant not hopsock due to running a plate chiller and no way to prefilter currently (and no dosh to outlay on a pickup filter).

Just thinking back, after taking a OG sample before putting in the yeast, there wasnt much hop flavor then, so I suspect it is the flowers/hopsock/storage that has caused the problem.

My next batch will be with pellets, stored in the freezer and thrown into the kettle without a sock and brewed with US05. See how that goes, but am unlikely to change back to no-chill.

Once again, thanks for everyones input!

Fil

 

[manticle]

As an aside: If you keep using flowers, try putting them in a minimash grain bag. Easily contained and kept from blocking taps and plate chillers but loose enough inside for decent utilisation. Just loosely knot the end.

 

[np1962]

You can also use a SS pot scrubber on the end of your pick up tube as a cheap alternative to a hop blocker.
The flowers will actually form a pretty good filter bed of their own.
Nige