Problem With Ferment - Not Happening?

[Neill]

So i've made probably 20 can kits in my time, so i would like to think i've got the technique down to a bit of an art now. I mixed this baby up 4 days ago:

Morgans Blue Mountain Lager Kit
Unhopped Pale Malt Extract 1.5kg
600g Dex/Maltodex mix
10g centennial hops boiled 10 min, 15 added at flameout

Now i discarded the kit yeast and used the Brew Cellar "Premium Lager" yeast which went into a glass with some 23 deg water and sugar - it was foaming heavily after 20 mins so i tipped it in an mixed it all up as per usual.

Now 4 days later, brew temp has been sitting at 16-18 degrees, and no bubbling. The fermenter passes the "squeeze test" and the seal looks fine. The top of the brew certainly looks like something's going on, but no vigorous bubbling at all.

Should i be concerned?

Should i warm it up a bit and see what happens?

Should i open it up and tip in the yeast that came with the blue mountain kit?

Should i go buy a hydrometer (never used one before now) and measure it?

cheers,


Neill

 

[brendo]

if there is some foam on the top, then it is def fermenting... lager yeasts tend to ferment a little differently than ales and sometimes take a bit longer. Assuming the yeast is a true lager yeast - 16-18 is quite high, 10-12 for a lager.

+1 for buying a hydrometer... quite an elemental piece of kit and will certainly help you out in these situations allowing you to take a gravity reading to see if there is any movement. Going out and buying one now will tell you what the current SG is - but not the OG (this can be estimated tho).

Sounds to me like it is going tho... but the temp might not produce the end product you are after...

Brendo

 

[jonocarroll]

so i would like to think i've got the technique down to a bit of an art now.

:unsure:

- If that's a true lager yeast, it won't do too well above 12*C.
- Without a hydrometer (or otherwise), you're not going to know if it's finished fermenting, or if it gets stuck. Bottle Bombs ahoy.
- If the top of the brew has a thick creaminess to it, it's probably doing something.

 

[hatchor]

Should i go buy a hydrometer (never used one before now) and measure it?

cheers,

Neill

Calling butters..... butters where are you.....


Neill, if it has some krausen on top it signifies some sort of fermentation, probably gonna be fine. The thing with very small airleaks is that the pressure doesn't build enough to bubble the airlock before escaping through the small leak. When creating lots of pressure (squeezing), the Co2 in fermenter cannot escape the small leak fast enough, and the airlock bubbles.

Short answer, forget the airlock and get a hydrometer. Someone around here has a signature that contains something along the lines of "Your airlock is a cheap piece of plastic crap, your hydrometer is a properly calibrated scientific device. Listen to your hydrometer and tell the airlock to get stuffed".... This way you will tell if your fermentation is just 'stuck' or if you do have a leak.

Cheers

 

[Neill]

yeah i know it's supposed to be down around 10 degrees ideally, but i've fermented using this yeast at 23-26 degrees and for some reason it doesn't produce many nasty esters even at higher temps, that's one of the reasons i like using it! I'm from QLD initially (in melbourne now) and haven't used much temp control before, so ferment temps below 20 degrees are a new thing for me, which is why i was wondering if i should warm it up..... but that shouldn't be the problem.

i reckon hatchor is right, it's probably got a small air leak somewhere. i just went and stirred it (by swilling the fermenter, i didn't open it) and it bubbled like a monster for about 10 seconds, then slowed down, then stopped again, so i think it must be a small air leak. definately solid signs of fermentation going on top of it, and it smells good too.

 

[chappo1970]

I suspect that's because the Brew Cellar "Premium Lager" yeast is in fact an Ale yeast? Not too sure there, 99%, but I do remember a rather big post on the subject that I can't put my finger to ATM. It's yeast that knows it's going to be punished with high temps by unworldly brewers.

As everybody else has said for a lager 10-12C is best 18-20C for Ales. Brendo and QB know their stuff backwards so take their advice. IMHO Temp control is #1 King to producing brews your mates will brag about.

You MUST, and I STRESS MUST! get yourself a hydrometer especially if you want to progress further to extracts, partials and maybe AG (if your that way inclinded). Hydrometer are cheap (under $20) and last a life time of brewing (well until your 3yr decides you don't need it anymore, I'm upto #3 <_< ). They are essential so that you can measure your beers goal posts, yeah?

When you mix up your wort take a reading. That will give you your starting Gravity (SG) around 1040 (...ish) for most kits and when you think you have a stuck ferment, like now, you whip out your hydro, ta da! take a sample, read it's now 1020, HooRay! your yeasties are alive and attenuating your wort. When you get three readings the same over several days, hoobloodyray again! it's time to bottle/keg whatever takes your fancy. Airlocks are for suckers OK! They should only be considered to be keeping nasties (wild yeast, bacteriand the odd cock-a-roach) invading your wort and killing your yeasty friends, that's it!

BTW Welcome Neill many many happy brews mate! :icon_cheers:

 

[raven19]

+2 for hydrometer.

Or just go straight for the Refractometer - linky.

 

[chappo1970]

+2 for hydrometer.

Or just go straight for the Refractometer - linky.

:lol:

Nah! Refractometers are for sooks! Go for a lazer guided nuclear sub atomic mass spectrometer with a light that goes blip!

 

[Sully]

:lol:

Nah! Refractometers are for sooks! Go for a lazer guided nuclear sub atomic mass spectrometer with a light that goes blip!

:icon_offtopic: IIRC you got a little excited playing with my refractometer on Sunday.... h34r:

 

[chappo1970]

:icon_offtopic: IIRC you got a little excited playing with my refractometer on Sunday.... h34r:

:lol:
Shhh! :angry: Sully no one must know our little dirty secret!

 

[brendo]

:lol:
Shhh! :angry: Sully no one must know our little dirty secret!

I love my refrac... :icon_drool2:

But I only use it for mashing/pre and post boil.

As soon as the wort hits the fermentor my trusty ol hydrometer comes out to play as it doesn't suffer the affects of alchol like the poor ol refrac does.

A hydrometer is a very handy thing... until it hits the floor...

Brendo

 

[manticle]

I suspect that's because the Brew Cellar "Premium Lager" yeast is in fact an Ale yeast? Not too sure there, 99%, but I do remember a rather big post on the subject that I can't put my finger to ATM.

At least according to the brew cellar website, the premium lager is a bottom fermenting yeast originating in germany so it's not ale.

 

[manticle]

yeah i know it's supposed to be down around 10 degrees ideally, but i've fermented using this yeast at 23-26 degrees and for some reason it doesn't produce many nasty esters even at higher temps, that's one of the reasons i like using it!

I'd recommend trying it at lower temps then lagering it for a week or so and seeing if you notice a considerable difference. That yeast will work up to about 15 although I think 8-12 is optimum. You may think it's nice now but be pleasantly surprised by the extra effort. A laundry sink full of ice-bricked water should do the trick for primary.

 

[chappo1970]

All repackaged Fermentis, except the English Ale.

Premium Ale is S04
Premium Lager is S23
English Ale is Windsor
Wheat is K97
and American Ale is US05

manticle you are indeed correct!

EDIT: I must have been thinking of something else?

 

[Mantis]

I was going to say that I havent broken a hyrdrometer yet, but I wont

I have broken both my pint nonics in the last week tho,

 

[Neill]

So this yeast is just S23 eh? it should be hammering away at 18 degrees then shouldn't it? What temp range is nice for S23?

 

[dj1984]

low temp is good for lager yeast, i have had lager fermented at high temps and its not nice at all, about 15 is the max this yeast will go if you cant keep it that low i would be going for a ale yeast fermented around 18 a bit of research and this si what you can get fermentis site

 

[Neill]

ok i just ran out and grabbed a hydrometer, it's reading 1020 after 5 days in the fermenter - a little high but obviously the fermentation is happening. I'll leave this one quite a long time in primary, probably 2 weeks, just to make sure it goes all the way. Will check the SG again in 4-5 days time.

must be a tiny air leak in this bloody fermenter, damn, how the heck am i supposed to find that. i guess just buy new seals everywhere....

 

[brendo]

must be a tiny air leak in this bloody fermenter, damn, how the heck am i supposed to find that. i guess just buy new seals everywhere....

Honestly mate, it is not worth the hassle unless you are absolutely addicted to the sound of the airlock gloomping. As long as nothing can get into the fermentor, you are sweet.

Just rely on the reliable indicators of fermentation - condensation on the lid, krausen and a falling SG and you will be fine.

Brendo

 

[dj1984]

Alot of people use cling wrap on the top of the fermenter, there is no need for an air lock the only reason i use one is too have a smell while it is fermenting :icon_drool2: dont let anyone see you doing this they will think you are weird.